1 00:00:11,270 --> 00:00:31,690 [Music] 2 00:00:37,910 --> 00:00:34,910 well hello it's Martin Willis and 3 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:37,920 welcome to the show I'm your host and we 4 00:00:42,229 --> 00:00:40,110 have a great one for you this evening I 5 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:42,239 have good news and bad news for the 6 00:00:47,930 --> 00:00:46,170 people over on YouTube the bad news I'll 7 00:00:51,500 --> 00:00:47,940 start out with is that this is not a 8 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:51,510 live show excuse me it's being it's 9 00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:53,730 being streamed but at the regular time 10 00:00:57,860 --> 00:00:55,110 but it is not a live show it's 11 00:00:59,420 --> 00:00:57,870 pre-recorded and the good news is I may 12 00:01:01,190 --> 00:00:59,430 be good news to some of you anyway that 13 00:01:05,329 --> 00:01:01,200 I will be active in the chatroom during 14 00:01:09,290 --> 00:01:05,339 the show so fire away and just be kind 15 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:09,300 that's all so the guests today is 16 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:13,410 Anthony lepay and he is a new york-based 17 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:15,180 showrunner director investigative 18 00:01:19,940 --> 00:01:16,140 journalist we're going to be talking 19 00:01:21,980 --> 00:01:19,950 tonight about identify identified inside 20 00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:21,990 America's UFO investigation which is 21 00:01:27,530 --> 00:01:24,479 coming out really soon 22 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:27,540 on Friday May 31st that's 10 to 9 23 00:01:32,030 --> 00:01:30,210 central time on the History Channel and 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:32,040 I'm really excited about that I was 25 00:01:35,750 --> 00:01:33,810 lucky enough to be able to watch the 26 00:01:36,490 --> 00:01:35,760 screener talk a little bit about that 27 00:01:39,890 --> 00:01:36,500 later 28 00:01:42,109 --> 00:01:39,900 second part of the show well this is for 29 00:01:44,630 --> 00:01:42,119 the first segment I have Anthony and the 30 00:01:45,140 --> 00:01:44,640 last two segments of the show I have MJ 31 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:45,150 binaya 32 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:47,580 he's a repeat guest he's going to be 33 00:01:53,060 --> 00:01:51,090 talking about his new book that has just 34 00:01:56,359 --> 00:01:53,070 come out he's always a lot of fun 35 00:01:58,190 --> 00:01:56,369 entertaining and all so I do want to 36 00:02:01,100 --> 00:01:58,200 thank everyone that helps out with the 37 00:02:03,140 --> 00:02:01,110 show and anyone can do that go over to 38 00:02:06,289 --> 00:02:03,150 podcast UFO comm you can see the 39 00:02:09,050 --> 00:02:06,299 information there our blog this week is 40 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:09,060 titled UFOs and money and that's by 41 00:02:15,410 --> 00:02:12,110 Charles Lear and that's basically about 42 00:02:18,740 --> 00:02:15,420 the money and the concepts of money that 43 00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:18,750 is made in this kind of you know fringe 44 00:02:23,990 --> 00:02:22,980 you may say industry of UFOs so it's 45 00:02:26,509 --> 00:02:24,000 very interesting 46 00:02:28,130 --> 00:02:26,519 great read check that out alright so we 47 00:02:30,860 --> 00:02:28,140 are ready to start with our guests 48 00:02:33,260 --> 00:02:30,870 welcome to the show Anthony thanks 49 00:02:35,570 --> 00:02:33,270 Martin grab me on yes 50 00:02:38,270 --> 00:02:35,580 yeah I'm real real excited 51 00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:38,280 your your upcoming series is this is 52 00:02:44,210 --> 00:02:40,560 this your brainchild or partially your 53 00:02:48,940 --> 00:02:44,220 brainchild no I'm an independent 54 00:02:51,290 --> 00:02:48,950 filmmaker and a television producer and 55 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:51,300 History Channel have been talking with 56 00:02:58,910 --> 00:02:53,490 Lou Elizondo and Tom DeLonge and Chris 57 00:03:00,470 --> 00:02:58,920 melon for a little while after that big 58 00:03:03,380 --> 00:03:00,480 New York Times article came out in 59 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:03,390 October of 2017 and they were just very 60 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:05,310 excited about trying to figure out a way 61 00:03:12,070 --> 00:03:07,410 to do a show with them and they brought 62 00:03:14,660 --> 00:03:12,080 me on in the spring of last year and 63 00:03:16,580 --> 00:03:14,670 basically we've had we had exclusive 64 00:03:20,710 --> 00:03:16,590 access to everything that they were 65 00:03:24,530 --> 00:03:20,720 doing over this past year wow that just 66 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:24,540 alone is is fascinating to be able to 67 00:03:29,570 --> 00:03:27,690 get kind of some inside that a lot of 68 00:03:33,260 --> 00:03:29,580 people in the UFO community of course 69 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:33,270 are uh you know just trying to get all 70 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:35,370 the information possible it's very hard 71 00:03:40,610 --> 00:03:37,710 and you know they're playing it close to 72 00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:40,620 the vest and I understand why things can 73 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:42,620 get carried away or misconstrued so 74 00:03:48,170 --> 00:03:45,690 anyway it must have been a fascinating 75 00:03:50,770 --> 00:03:48,180 journey since then it has to have 76 00:03:54,530 --> 00:03:50,780 probably been the most fascinating 77 00:03:58,880 --> 00:03:54,540 mind-blowing project I've ever worked on 78 00:04:00,440 --> 00:03:58,890 it was absolutely incredibly just these 79 00:04:03,020 --> 00:04:00,450 guys are just such interesting people 80 00:04:06,740 --> 00:04:03,030 with their each individual backgrounds 81 00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:06,750 as you know there's such a mix of 82 00:04:13,190 --> 00:04:10,110 characters involved in the to the stars 83 00:04:17,630 --> 00:04:13,200 group you know we have Tom DeLonge who's 84 00:04:19,580 --> 00:04:17,640 this Rockstar super passionate about 85 00:04:22,190 --> 00:04:19,590 this issue who is able to wrangle all 86 00:04:25,370 --> 00:04:22,200 these guys together yes lou Elizondo a 87 00:04:27,850 --> 00:04:25,380 guy who you know really worked in the 88 00:04:31,190 --> 00:04:27,860 shadows and some of the most sensitive 89 00:04:33,770 --> 00:04:31,200 counterintelligence operations that the 90 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:33,780 US military who was conducting around 91 00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:35,250 the world and then you have a guy like 92 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:39,680 Chris melon who's a old school 93 00:04:46,850 --> 00:04:42,750 intelligence old hand as that you maybe 94 00:04:48,730 --> 00:04:46,860 you could say who as Lou says is a guy 95 00:04:51,129 --> 00:04:48,740 who knew all the secrets this was a 96 00:04:55,180 --> 00:04:51,139 he was overseeing budgets for special 97 00:05:00,189 --> 00:04:55,190 access programs on of just super super 98 00:05:02,020 --> 00:05:00,199 high level of classification so um and 99 00:05:02,770 --> 00:05:02,030 that's not even not to forget Steve 100 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:02,780 justice 101 00:05:08,010 --> 00:05:05,449 you know Lockheed Martin skunk works so 102 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:08,020 it's just an incredible you know 103 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:10,090 incredibly high level group of 104 00:05:18,670 --> 00:05:15,110 individuals and just great guys so being 105 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:18,680 able to have a front-row seat to a sort 106 00:05:23,379 --> 00:05:20,810 of a year in their life after this big 107 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:23,389 New York Times article broke and they 108 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:25,310 were you know involved in getting those 109 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:28,490 three videos released from the DoD it's 110 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:31,130 just been it's just absolutely 111 00:05:36,339 --> 00:05:32,930 fascinating right right 112 00:05:38,980 --> 00:05:36,349 Chris was a former guest on this show I 113 00:05:41,649 --> 00:05:38,990 was thrilled to have him on and I'm 114 00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:41,659 really glad you know he is you know 115 00:05:46,149 --> 00:05:44,180 keeping with his interest on this 116 00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:46,159 subject and that's what I say about 117 00:05:49,330 --> 00:05:47,270 everyone that's involved with that 118 00:05:52,950 --> 00:05:49,340 actually you know these are people that 119 00:05:55,709 --> 00:05:52,960 are out on the limb actually because of 120 00:05:59,439 --> 00:05:55,719 absolutely you know the factor of that 121 00:06:01,360 --> 00:05:59,449 absolutely yeah so it's we're real I 122 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:01,370 don't want to speak for everyone but I 123 00:06:04,779 --> 00:06:03,050 can speak for myself that I'm I'm 124 00:06:06,670 --> 00:06:04,789 thrilled that they're they're taking the 125 00:06:08,550 --> 00:06:06,680 chance and and trying to move the ball 126 00:06:10,749 --> 00:06:08,560 forward whatever the ball is you know 127 00:06:14,770 --> 00:06:10,759 it's so hard to know what these things 128 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:14,780 are and and I I'm just willing to bet 129 00:06:19,930 --> 00:06:16,250 that you probably don't know any more 130 00:06:22,809 --> 00:06:19,940 than you did of what they are no look I 131 00:06:24,999 --> 00:06:22,819 definitely I mean it I mean I definitely 132 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:25,009 have many more questions and I have 133 00:06:31,779 --> 00:06:28,490 answers but what we really try to do and 134 00:06:34,870 --> 00:06:31,789 I think as you hopefully you saw when 135 00:06:37,899 --> 00:06:34,880 you were able to get watched the first 136 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:37,909 episode of our six-part series is what 137 00:06:44,260 --> 00:06:40,250 we're trying to do here is to kind of in 138 00:06:48,490 --> 00:06:44,270 some ways reinvent the genre of UFO tell 139 00:06:50,890 --> 00:06:48,500 on television where so many of the shows 140 00:06:54,430 --> 00:06:50,900 are coming in with a preconceived notion 141 00:06:57,820 --> 00:06:54,440 of what these things are that they're 142 00:07:00,899 --> 00:06:57,830 somehow extraterrestrial and and kind of 143 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:00,909 back into and try to kind of leave out 144 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:02,330 countervailing in for me 145 00:07:09,540 --> 00:07:05,270 etc what we try to do is really just 146 00:07:13,689 --> 00:07:09,550 take a very cold look at what these 147 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:13,699 military witnesses are seeing and that 148 00:07:19,420 --> 00:07:15,770 alone was going to blow your mind 149 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:19,430 because and I think what's so 150 00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:22,610 fascinating is what we see that's just 151 00:07:28,029 --> 00:07:25,310 happened in April with the Navy coming 152 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:28,039 out and announcing that there have new 153 00:07:34,719 --> 00:07:31,490 guidelines for pilots and others to 154 00:07:37,809 --> 00:07:34,729 report UFO encounters but really what 155 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:37,819 that you know that's one part of what 156 00:07:43,899 --> 00:07:40,250 what that means but really what that is 157 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:43,909 is a tacit admission that what these 158 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:48,050 pilots are seeing are not US military so 159 00:07:56,279 --> 00:07:52,370 once you knock out that what these are 160 00:08:00,640 --> 00:07:56,289 you know not US military craft 161 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:00,650 intercepting our our own jets you're 162 00:08:05,619 --> 00:08:02,810 left with you know only one other 163 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:05,629 plausible explanation and that is a 164 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:08,210 foreign adversary or you may be an ally 165 00:08:15,309 --> 00:08:12,770 but more likely an adversary so in but 166 00:08:18,909 --> 00:08:15,319 as we really delve into on the series 167 00:08:22,709 --> 00:08:18,919 that explanation is for anyone who knows 168 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:22,719 anything about propulsion and about the 169 00:08:27,129 --> 00:08:25,610 recent advancements in aircraft and 170 00:08:30,399 --> 00:08:27,139 where the Russians are and the Chinese 171 00:08:34,509 --> 00:08:30,409 are it's very hard to just square that 172 00:08:36,579 --> 00:08:34,519 circle so really so what we really do is 173 00:08:41,759 --> 00:08:36,589 look at all those different test cases 174 00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:41,769 on and try to talk about them in a very 175 00:08:48,009 --> 00:08:44,720 investigative way and really just hear 176 00:08:51,490 --> 00:08:48,019 directly from the pilots and radar 177 00:08:54,310 --> 00:08:51,500 technicians and operators and others who 178 00:08:57,670 --> 00:08:54,320 are witnessing these things and and 179 00:09:00,490 --> 00:08:57,680 really let people you know make up their 180 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:00,500 own mind about what they could be yeah 181 00:09:05,139 --> 00:09:02,890 that's an excellent approach I believe 182 00:09:06,819 --> 00:09:05,149 you know we've said many times in the 183 00:09:10,990 --> 00:09:06,829 show if someone tells you they know what 184 00:09:12,970 --> 00:09:11,000 it is then run away because I don't 185 00:09:16,030 --> 00:09:12,980 think you know I don't know if we'll 186 00:09:16,269 --> 00:09:16,040 ever know but I really don't you you 187 00:09:26,199 --> 00:09:16,279 know 188 00:09:28,509 --> 00:09:26,209 truly think they probably don't really 189 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:28,519 know they may know more because a lot of 190 00:09:32,730 --> 00:09:30,290 things it's you know it's they've 191 00:09:36,189 --> 00:09:32,740 definitely hidden away a lot of things 192 00:09:39,489 --> 00:09:36,199 you know over the years safe footage and 193 00:09:42,850 --> 00:09:39,499 you know you name it told witnesses 194 00:09:45,100 --> 00:09:42,860 military witnesses you know - made them 195 00:09:47,470 --> 00:09:45,110 sign non-disclosures and and all that 196 00:09:49,809 --> 00:09:47,480 and so there's been a lot of cover-up 197 00:09:52,119 --> 00:09:49,819 but I don't think it's cover-up because 198 00:09:56,049 --> 00:09:52,129 they know what it is I think you know 199 00:09:58,090 --> 00:09:56,059 there's the cover-up is more inclined by 200 00:10:01,150 --> 00:09:58,100 the fact that they don't know what it is 201 00:10:03,340 --> 00:10:01,160 and you know for the Air Force to 202 00:10:05,350 --> 00:10:03,350 actually not be able to protect our 203 00:10:08,860 --> 00:10:05,360 skies and us to know that would be 204 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:08,870 pretty scary yeah yeah I mean I think a 205 00:10:14,350 --> 00:10:12,290 big thing that I it actually only 206 00:10:17,549 --> 00:10:14,360 reinforced something that I've always 207 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:17,559 said you know I'm someone that I've 208 00:10:24,429 --> 00:10:20,689 reported on the government for many 209 00:10:28,090 --> 00:10:24,439 years and in particular law enforcement 210 00:10:29,499 --> 00:10:28,100 and intelligence agencies and I think a 211 00:10:31,749 --> 00:10:29,509 big thing for people to understand out 212 00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:31,759 there is there is no such thing as the 213 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:33,920 US government there's just in the 214 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:35,689 intelligence world they're 17 different 215 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:37,610 intelligence agencies right there's five 216 00:10:45,999 --> 00:10:43,250 different branches of the military so to 217 00:10:48,189 --> 00:10:46,009 say that any anyone that there is 218 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:48,199 anything like the US government or they 219 00:10:55,119 --> 00:10:50,889 know there is no it's very difficult to 220 00:10:57,939 --> 00:10:55,129 pinpoint but I do think what we're 221 00:11:03,069 --> 00:10:57,949 seeing with this new Navy announcement 222 00:11:06,490 --> 00:11:03,079 is at least as far as the US Navy goes 223 00:11:09,309 --> 00:11:06,500 they don't have answers at hand and 224 00:11:12,519 --> 00:11:09,319 there and and and that's that the 225 00:11:15,069 --> 00:11:12,529 significance of really these two major 226 00:11:17,530 --> 00:11:15,079 pillars in the in the whole story of 227 00:11:18,730 --> 00:11:17,540 UFOs that have happened over the last 228 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:18,740 year and a half 229 00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:21,290 beginning with the release of the three 230 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:25,940 videos in 2017 into 2018 and 231 00:11:33,220 --> 00:11:29,210 this announcement by the Navy that that 232 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:33,230 their recent events that are happening 233 00:11:39,130 --> 00:11:35,570 that they can't explain and that they 234 00:11:41,860 --> 00:11:39,140 want to create a policy that encourages 235 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:41,870 pilots to report them because that's a 236 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:44,330 big thing that you know many of the 237 00:11:48,910 --> 00:11:46,310 pilots we talk to and there's many more 238 00:11:52,540 --> 00:11:48,920 pilots one of the interesting things 239 00:11:56,580 --> 00:11:52,550 when you watch our series you'll you'll 240 00:11:59,380 --> 00:11:56,590 you're gonna meet and see several pilots 241 00:12:02,680 --> 00:11:59,390 including the pilots who are involved in 242 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:02,690 the other two videos that were released 243 00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:06,650 by the DoD and we're going to shed some 244 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:09,400 new light on that incident or incidents 245 00:12:15,250 --> 00:12:13,370 if you will but a lot of those but 246 00:12:18,250 --> 00:12:15,260 there's many more pilots that I talked 247 00:12:21,130 --> 00:12:18,260 to who didn't want to go on air who 248 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:21,140 confirmed their stories but one of the 249 00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:24,530 things that really struck me was David 250 00:12:29,950 --> 00:12:27,110 flavors wingman pilot who spoke to us 251 00:12:32,260 --> 00:12:29,960 for the first time was a female pilot as 252 00:12:34,570 --> 00:12:32,270 you see in the first episode one of the 253 00:12:36,610 --> 00:12:34,580 things that she told us and I'm sorry I 254 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:36,620 can't remember if we've if this is in 255 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:38,690 the episode might be in the following up 256 00:12:43,060 --> 00:12:40,130 so where we kind of circled back to her 257 00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:43,070 one of the things she said to us is if I 258 00:12:47,710 --> 00:12:46,190 was alone and it was a single-seat pilot 259 00:12:49,450 --> 00:12:47,720 and I was just out on a patrol or 260 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:49,460 something and this and I saw this I 261 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:51,710 probably wouldn't have told anyone right 262 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:54,050 the only reason that they came back and 263 00:12:59,350 --> 00:12:56,210 said what had happened was because all 264 00:13:02,950 --> 00:12:59,360 four of them saw it the two pilots and 265 00:13:06,820 --> 00:13:02,960 their their weapon systems operators so 266 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:06,830 that isn't you know and not that was the 267 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:10,010 big thing that that is the reason why 268 00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:11,990 this wingman pilot and Dave flavor 269 00:13:18,130 --> 00:13:15,080 coming forward it's because they want it 270 00:13:20,590 --> 00:13:18,140 they want it to be okay to to report 271 00:13:22,390 --> 00:13:20,600 that you know I mean this was an 272 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:22,400 incident that happened in broad daylight 273 00:13:27,570 --> 00:13:24,170 I mean that's the other thing that I 274 00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:27,580 think is a huge difference for me in 275 00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:30,260 this sort of veracity of these stories 276 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:31,910 are these are these are pilots 277 00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:34,090 intercepting things in broad daylight 278 00:13:38,740 --> 00:13:36,920 seeing things so many things can happen 279 00:13:39,510 --> 00:13:38,750 at night whether that's a weather 280 00:13:42,930 --> 00:13:39,520 inversion 281 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:42,940 or you know reflections or all the other 282 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:44,890 weird things that happen tonight but 283 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:46,810 when you're seeing things up close and 284 00:13:51,630 --> 00:13:49,810 personal during broad daylight 285 00:13:54,990 --> 00:13:51,640 on a perfectly clear day over the 286 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:55,000 Pacific and it's being confirmed by all 287 00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:56,890 these different pilots and here's the 288 00:14:02,940 --> 00:13:58,720 other thing that I'm going to tell you 289 00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:02,950 that we do in this show which I can't 290 00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:04,150 tell you I don't want to give too many 291 00:14:15,630 --> 00:14:10,830 spoilers away but we find many civilian 292 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:15,640 witnesses in the same area where the 293 00:14:23,130 --> 00:14:18,850 nimitz incident occurred who tell of 294 00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:23,140 ongoing incidents very similar to the 295 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:25,480 nimitz incident isn't that something 296 00:14:29,550 --> 00:14:27,490 yep yeah and you know the thing that 297 00:14:32,070 --> 00:14:29,560 I've always thought as I've looked at 298 00:14:35,630 --> 00:14:32,080 this subject over the years is that it 299 00:14:38,670 --> 00:14:35,640 is so strange that there's reoccurring 300 00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:38,680 what they call flaps or whatever it you 301 00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:40,270 know it just makes you wonder why 302 00:14:46,650 --> 00:14:43,600 they're in one area you know that's a 303 00:14:48,270 --> 00:14:46,660 really good lore be yeah that is and 304 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:48,280 that is one of the topics that we 305 00:14:51,330 --> 00:14:49,570 actually get into it's a really good 306 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:51,340 point that is one of the questions that 307 00:15:00,060 --> 00:14:57,250 we ask because we clearly are seeing 308 00:15:02,870 --> 00:15:00,070 that there are some sort of you know 309 00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:02,880 what they call hotspots for these 310 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:04,750 incidents that are happening in certain 311 00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:07,450 parts of the world and even in as I 312 00:15:15,620 --> 00:15:10,720 believe you see in episode 1 a tip even 313 00:15:19,850 --> 00:15:15,630 created a map in 2009 that we reveal 314 00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:19,860 that shows some of just a very small 315 00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:24,100 smattering of plot points on a global 316 00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:28,590 map where the military had reported 317 00:15:33,630 --> 00:15:32,320 seeing incidents so that is one of the 318 00:15:38,910 --> 00:15:33,640 enduring mysteries of this whole thing 319 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:38,920 which is fascinating and we we delve 320 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:42,610 into that question again probably 321 00:15:49,530 --> 00:15:44,290 raising more questions and we have 322 00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:49,540 answers but we definitely are this show 323 00:15:56,519 --> 00:15:52,900 I hope will push the needle forward 324 00:15:58,920 --> 00:15:56,529 in this conversation because primarily 325 00:16:02,060 --> 00:15:58,930 and that's what this was a obviously a 326 00:16:05,810 --> 00:16:02,070 strategic decision by Elizondo but also 327 00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:05,820 us as filmmakers making this series was 328 00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:09,760 by focusing on these military witnesses 329 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:13,630 several of which are active duty people 330 00:16:19,019 --> 00:16:15,970 who have everything to lose you know 331 00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:19,029 when you're an f-18 pilot it's very easy 332 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:22,000 to be grounded so you can one slip up 333 00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:24,910 and you can basically lose your you know 334 00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:26,920 have your driver's license taken away 335 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:29,020 for lack of a better word 336 00:16:34,410 --> 00:16:32,050 so in these guys you know these guys are 337 00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,420 that the creme de la creme of the 338 00:16:41,070 --> 00:16:37,120 military to be NFA an f-18 pilot in the 339 00:16:43,410 --> 00:16:41,080 Navy is a dream of thousands of pilots 340 00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:43,420 that go and even just to be a c-130 341 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:46,390 pilot is a is a dream for you know but 342 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:49,930 to be a fighter pilot in the Navy flying 343 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:52,330 an f-18 is you've really reached the 344 00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:55,450 pinnacle so to risk that by coming 345 00:17:01,140 --> 00:16:57,720 forward and talking about something that 346 00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:01,150 potentially could brand you as you know 347 00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:04,480 some kind of put you in you know in some 348 00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:07,620 sort of psyche you know of eval 349 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:09,910 situation it's just an incredibly brave 350 00:17:14,429 --> 00:17:12,250 thing for people someone to do as I said 351 00:17:17,340 --> 00:17:14,439 I talked to many more pilots than you 352 00:17:20,910 --> 00:17:17,350 see in in the show who spoke to me off 353 00:17:24,059 --> 00:17:20,920 the record confirming the larger details 354 00:17:26,429 --> 00:17:24,069 of this other main incident that we look 355 00:17:28,410 --> 00:17:26,439 into but those guys did not want to go 356 00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:28,420 on camera and listen I can't blame them 357 00:17:32,430 --> 00:17:30,550 you know if you if you worked all your 358 00:17:34,049 --> 00:17:32,440 life to and you had a dream of becoming 359 00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:34,059 a fighter pilot and you want to serve 360 00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:36,880 your country it's a very risky thing so 361 00:17:41,910 --> 00:17:39,760 what what is interesting now is the Navy 362 00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:41,920 is saying hey you don't have to be 363 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:44,440 afraid anymore what we're hoping is when 364 00:17:48,570 --> 00:17:46,330 our show goes on the air we actually 365 00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:48,580 have at the end of every episode an 366 00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:52,030 email address for military witnesses to 367 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:54,580 contact us well because we want to 368 00:17:57,310 --> 00:17:56,290 continue this investigation because as I 369 00:18:01,510 --> 00:17:57,320 said 370 00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:01,520 even though we have a ton of new really 371 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:04,430 fascinating information that you're 372 00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:06,650 going to see in this series we've as you 373 00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:08,150 know we've touched the tip of the 374 00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:13,120 iceberg there is this this is an ongoing 375 00:18:18,010 --> 00:18:16,400 situation these events are happening all 376 00:18:21,130 --> 00:18:18,020 over the world they're happening all the 377 00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:21,140 time they may be increasing we don't 378 00:18:28,660 --> 00:18:25,580 know that for sure but there are people 379 00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:28,670 who say they are so what what is 380 00:18:34,570 --> 00:18:32,750 happening is it's a this exciting and 381 00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:34,580 you know I think a George Knapp said it 382 00:18:39,850 --> 00:18:36,590 best he said it's exciting and it's a 383 00:18:41,230 --> 00:18:39,860 little scary yes yeah and I love the 384 00:18:43,810 --> 00:18:41,240 military case we've had a number of 385 00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:43,820 military people including you know 386 00:18:49,150 --> 00:18:47,300 Nimitz witnesses on the show in the past 387 00:18:50,740 --> 00:18:49,160 that that is such an amazing case and 388 00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:50,750 and of course I've tried to get David 389 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:54,350 flavor on but he's getting you know he 390 00:18:59,710 --> 00:18:56,330 wants to be careful where he goes and 391 00:19:01,690 --> 00:18:59,720 and as far as any public appearances 392 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:01,700 things like that so I understand you 393 00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:03,110 know eventually maybe I'll get him on 394 00:19:10,330 --> 00:19:06,080 the show but it was I love the fact that 395 00:19:12,610 --> 00:19:10,340 he he explains what he did how he did he 396 00:19:14,890 --> 00:19:12,620 was also on a fighter pilots podcast and 397 00:19:16,660 --> 00:19:14,900 talked about it and that was a yeah 398 00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:16,670 really great show to listen to from the 399 00:19:21,970 --> 00:19:19,520 / sex perspective of a fighter pilot too 400 00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:21,980 far yeah whoo talking yeah we actually 401 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:23,780 have we brought along 402 00:19:31,630 --> 00:19:27,490 commander flavor to meet another pilot 403 00:19:33,550 --> 00:19:31,640 from another incident and that and 404 00:19:36,970 --> 00:19:33,560 you'll see him 405 00:19:39,310 --> 00:19:36,980 Louella Sandow and this new pilot that 406 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:39,320 no one's heard from before talk about 407 00:19:45,850 --> 00:19:42,170 another incident and it's it was we 408 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:45,860 wanted to bring a flavour along both to 409 00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:48,140 help this pilot feel comfortable and 410 00:19:53,230 --> 00:19:49,910 knowing that you know the right there 411 00:19:56,020 --> 00:19:53,240 you know that you know flavor his career 412 00:19:58,180 --> 00:19:56,030 wasn't harmed by coming out and he still 413 00:20:00,040 --> 00:19:58,190 you know works as he says he works as it 414 00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:00,050 you know in the private sector now but 415 00:20:05,650 --> 00:20:02,380 still you know as a respected know it's 416 00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:05,660 person in the military community but 417 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:07,580 also what was fascinating is just to 418 00:20:13,210 --> 00:20:09,710 hear them talk about their or not 419 00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:13,220 and and all the physics about what this 420 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:15,830 guy saw in compare and contrast the 421 00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,510 craft that he was seeing with what 422 00:20:21,789 --> 00:20:20,240 flavour saw and it was just absolutely 423 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:21,799 fascinating because these guys are 424 00:20:25,659 --> 00:20:23,570 really really I mean that's the other 425 00:20:28,389 --> 00:20:25,669 thing about f-18 pilots I can't 426 00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:28,399 overemphasize how smart these guys are 427 00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:31,870 at least when it comes to aviation 428 00:20:38,430 --> 00:20:35,840 physics of flight lift propulsion all 429 00:20:41,289 --> 00:20:38,440 those things I mean they they are 430 00:20:43,389 --> 00:20:41,299 extremely knowledgeable about the 431 00:20:46,029 --> 00:20:43,399 physics of flight and what's possible 432 00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:46,039 and and they're also trained as you know 433 00:20:53,620 --> 00:20:51,049 to see into what is a you know a foreign 434 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:53,630 adversary what is a profile of a what 435 00:20:58,299 --> 00:20:56,330 are all the known threats in the air 436 00:21:00,220 --> 00:20:58,309 that they need to look out for what's a 437 00:21:03,299 --> 00:21:00,230 what's a red threat what's a you know 438 00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,309 what's what's a blue friendly right so 439 00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:06,080 to hear these two pilots talk was 440 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:07,760 absolutely fascinating so I think the 441 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:10,250 viewers are really going to be that's an 442 00:21:15,029 --> 00:21:12,130 episode four 443 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:15,039 that people are going to be fascinating 444 00:21:19,930 --> 00:21:17,510 fascinated to see this conversation 445 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:19,940 between these two fighter pilots hmm 446 00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:21,890 that's great now did you have an 447 00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,230 interest in the subject prior to taking 448 00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:26,720 this project on you know that's a great 449 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:30,950 question I had a run for years a website 450 00:21:36,220 --> 00:21:32,690 called a guerrilla News Network which is 451 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:36,230 a independent news site and we had 452 00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:40,690 covered the disclosure projects original 453 00:21:45,279 --> 00:21:43,640 press conference and some of the reports 454 00:21:48,220 --> 00:21:45,289 that they were putting out back I don't 455 00:21:49,419 --> 00:21:48,230 know in the early talks right so it was 456 00:21:53,409 --> 00:21:49,429 always something that I had been 457 00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:53,419 interested in but and had read up a 458 00:21:59,649 --> 00:21:56,480 decent amount but wasn't it by no means 459 00:22:02,260 --> 00:21:59,659 an expert and really had no opinion 460 00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:02,270 either way other than being really 461 00:22:09,850 --> 00:22:07,640 intrigued by the but really what what 462 00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:09,860 what was always most fascinating to me 463 00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:12,020 and we bring this up and we integrate 464 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:14,510 some of this into the show is is really 465 00:22:22,170 --> 00:22:17,450 looking at the historical record and and 466 00:22:24,850 --> 00:22:22,180 how these things are appear to 467 00:22:27,970 --> 00:22:24,860 we've been happening for for at least 468 00:22:30,670 --> 00:22:27,980 seven decades and and to be so 469 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:30,680 documented and and to be documented all 470 00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:33,170 over the world and that's what always 471 00:22:38,770 --> 00:22:35,840 fascinated me was you know because I do 472 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:38,780 know a little bit about sort of advanced 473 00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:41,090 weapons testing and things like that and 474 00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:44,000 secret programs and and the idea that 475 00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:47,120 somehow these could be chalked up as 476 00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:49,840 just some kind of advanced weapons test 477 00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:53,030 when you know when we were building the 478 00:22:57,910 --> 00:22:54,230 the stealth bomber 479 00:23:00,370 --> 00:22:57,920 I mean there was you know I think Brian 480 00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:00,380 bender from Politico put it to me he 481 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:01,910 said you know those were built in 482 00:23:06,490 --> 00:23:04,610 onesies and twosies there's not fleets 483 00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:06,500 of these things flying over Argentina 484 00:23:11,770 --> 00:23:09,440 and over and if they were why are they 485 00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:11,780 being seen over Russia why are they 486 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:13,580 being seen over Chile if it's an 487 00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:15,290 advanced what you know that's why they 488 00:23:20,620 --> 00:23:17,750 have groom Lake is to fly them and 489 00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:20,630 control air spaces so all those things 490 00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:23,300 never really added up to me and and and 491 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:26,510 I'm a person who is I'm highly skeptical 492 00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:30,410 of any source but I also believe 493 00:23:40,090 --> 00:23:35,660 fundamentally that people do not put 494 00:23:42,550 --> 00:23:40,100 themselves out in in positions that that 495 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:42,560 can harm you know harm their reputation 496 00:23:46,690 --> 00:23:44,330 without a good reason 497 00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:46,700 and so many of these that you know 498 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:48,980 there's so many reports obviously that 499 00:23:55,330 --> 00:23:52,730 our people who are you know a stable or 500 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:55,340 who have you know her seeing things that 501 00:23:59,170 --> 00:23:57,050 that you know or mean they're getting 502 00:24:01,690 --> 00:23:59,180 confused but there's so many more 503 00:24:03,610 --> 00:24:01,700 reports over the years from UFO just 504 00:24:05,860 --> 00:24:03,620 everyday people seeing UFOs where 505 00:24:08,020 --> 00:24:05,870 clearly these are people you know for 506 00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:08,030 instance law enforcement officers who 507 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:09,710 are out on the road all the time and 508 00:24:17,110 --> 00:24:11,810 sheriff's and we actually enter we have 509 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:17,120 a military veteran that we interview who 510 00:24:21,850 --> 00:24:19,370 was a sheriff for seven years of a 511 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:21,860 county in the Midwest I mean these are 512 00:24:29,770 --> 00:24:25,970 people who have no reason to be coming 513 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:29,780 out in and saying in writing up reports 514 00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:33,290 and filing them to their you know about 515 00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:35,510 things so I've always I've always been a 516 00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:36,020 pop 517 00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:38,300 in that sense of that that I do 518 00:24:43,570 --> 00:24:41,600 fundamentally believe that that most 519 00:24:46,030 --> 00:24:43,580 people are telling the truth even though 520 00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:46,040 maybe they're deluded you know about 521 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:48,080 what they're seeing or you know are 522 00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:49,760 confused or something that most people 523 00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:52,220 are not just you know coming up and 524 00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:53,750 making up stories to make a buck 525 00:24:58,450 --> 00:24:55,550 obviously that happens in this world 526 00:24:59,680 --> 00:24:58,460 because there is you know yes you 527 00:25:01,300 --> 00:24:59,690 mentioned you're going to be talking 528 00:25:04,150 --> 00:25:01,310 about that later on the show obviously 529 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:04,160 there are people or hucksters or take 530 00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:07,850 advantage of people's fascination with 531 00:25:12,790 --> 00:25:10,190 this issue but that's what's always 532 00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,800 struck me about this issue is that you 533 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:14,720 know who's gonna who wants to come out 534 00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:18,050 and and brand themselves I mean I I had 535 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:20,870 a you know I think this is I'm in a very 536 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:23,570 nervous time in my life waiting for this 537 00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:25,970 show to air and and how it's gonna 538 00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:27,950 reflect on my credibility as a 539 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:30,320 journalist it's a risky it's a third 540 00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:34,250 rail thing to touch you know so I have a 541 00:25:37,930 --> 00:25:36,080 lot of apprehension myself even though I 542 00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:37,940 you know we're double-checking and 543 00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:39,590 triple-checking everything we can you 544 00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:43,780 know well I gotta tell you relax because 545 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:46,640 after watching the screener and I've 546 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:48,530 said this on another show ORS on that 547 00:25:54,340 --> 00:25:51,170 it's the best thing I've seen on TV in 548 00:25:56,050 --> 00:25:54,350 regarding this topic and I can't wait to 549 00:25:59,980 --> 00:25:56,060 be able to watch the rest of the series 550 00:26:02,400 --> 00:25:59,990 there it's a six part series and limited 551 00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:02,410 series unidentified inside America's UFO 552 00:26:09,340 --> 00:26:04,820 investigation don't forget it premieres 553 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:09,350 on Friday May 31st at 10:00 that's 9:00 554 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:11,290 Central time on the History Channel 555 00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:13,730 Anthony thanks so much it's been a real 556 00:26:19,810 --> 00:26:16,400 pleasure and I really appreciate that 557 00:26:21,730 --> 00:26:19,820 you came on the show thank you keep up 558 00:26:24,220 --> 00:26:21,740 this great work it's such a great 559 00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:24,230 podcast and it's really appreciate it 560 00:26:27,790 --> 00:26:25,670 and then thank you for your kind words 561 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:27,800 about the show well it's all true 562 00:26:35,770 --> 00:26:29,810 all right Yvonne hang in for these 563 00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:42,460 [Applause] 564 00:27:02,770 --> 00:26:59,950 all right welcome back and like I said 565 00:27:06,850 --> 00:27:02,780 my guest is MJ benaiah he's the author 566 00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:06,860 of the UFO people a curious culture and 567 00:27:12,789 --> 00:27:08,870 I can't wait to talk to him about that 568 00:27:14,529 --> 00:27:12,799 he's an educator writer and blogger he's 569 00:27:17,460 --> 00:27:14,539 actually does some blogging for 570 00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:17,470 mysterious universe and rogue planet and 571 00:27:25,390 --> 00:27:21,020 he has been included in the 14 times 572 00:27:28,210 --> 00:27:25,400 fate magazine and he also has a book 573 00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:28,220 entitled UFOs reframing the debate I 574 00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:29,480 remember I had talked to him about that 575 00:27:36,940 --> 00:27:33,830 one and he lives in Canada he's got two 576 00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:36,950 children in a massive cat I love that 577 00:27:39,580 --> 00:27:39,230 about him how you doing welcome to the 578 00:27:42,220 --> 00:27:39,590 show 579 00:27:43,810 --> 00:27:42,230 MJ Oh Martin it's it's great to be here 580 00:27:45,399 --> 00:27:43,820 thanks so much for having me yeah I was 581 00:27:46,779 --> 00:27:45,409 I was just looking I think it's been 582 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:46,789 over a year since you've been on 583 00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:50,090 previously yeah it probably has been it 584 00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:52,070 has been a while so I'm really excited 585 00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,590 to be back on your show and and and to 586 00:27:58,570 --> 00:27:56,240 be chatting with you again so we do chat 587 00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:58,580 sort of off and on yes casually 588 00:28:02,140 --> 00:27:59,840 everyone's well yeah yeah throw each 589 00:28:03,549 --> 00:28:02,150 other an email or a text or with some 590 00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:03,559 ways to communicate one way or another 591 00:28:07,450 --> 00:28:05,900 we always seem to here and there about 592 00:28:09,159 --> 00:28:07,460 different things so I always I always 593 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:09,169 get led back to you for some reason 594 00:28:13,810 --> 00:28:11,570 doesn't matter all the weird UFO drama 595 00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:13,820 in my life always tends come back to you 596 00:28:18,970 --> 00:28:15,620 Martin I wish you were the only one that 597 00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:18,980 said that oh yeah 598 00:28:23,980 --> 00:28:22,100 but anyway so for the person I do have I 599 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:23,990 do have to say this every show now 600 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:26,090 because I get a lot of email I have a 601 00:28:30,610 --> 00:28:28,850 bunch of new listeners a lot of people 602 00:28:33,310 --> 00:28:30,620 that are actually new to the UFO topic 603 00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:33,320 will come and listen to the show and I 604 00:28:37,299 --> 00:28:35,750 really do appreciate that and so a lot 605 00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:37,309 of times when I'm talking about a UFO 606 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:39,590 event you know sighting that famous 607 00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:40,970 sighting or something like that I forget 608 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:42,980 that and I do want to apologize to them 609 00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:44,450 because I don't really explain the 610 00:28:50,130 --> 00:28:47,360 detail of a lot of things but anyway 611 00:28:52,150 --> 00:28:50,140 detail can you give more of a detailed 612 00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:52,160 background and what sparked your 613 00:28:57,150 --> 00:28:55,220 interest in this subject sure yeah I'll 614 00:29:00,850 --> 00:28:57,160 give you the Reader's Digest version 615 00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:00,860 when I was a kid my parents made very 616 00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:02,809 questionable choices about my television 617 00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:04,880 consumption so I watched a lot of TV 618 00:29:10,180 --> 00:29:07,000 that was inappropriate for a young mind 619 00:29:11,650 --> 00:29:10,190 such as you know the x-files and the 620 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:11,660 Outer Limits and Twilight Zone and all 621 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:14,090 the weird stuff like that yeah Star Trek 622 00:29:18,789 --> 00:29:17,090 which is that that's okay anyway I've 623 00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:18,799 always had an interest in the weird and 624 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:20,809 the science-fiction and and and ghosts 625 00:29:25,419 --> 00:29:23,210 in the paranormal and then it wasn't 626 00:29:27,970 --> 00:29:25,429 really until University that that I got 627 00:29:30,780 --> 00:29:27,980 into the the more academic study of 628 00:29:34,330 --> 00:29:30,790 culture and and theory and philosophy 629 00:29:36,130 --> 00:29:34,340 and sort of I met various individuals 630 00:29:39,220 --> 00:29:36,140 and in a paranormal group and then Chris 631 00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:39,230 Rakowski who's a local UFO writer and in 632 00:29:44,409 --> 00:29:42,350 my city and we sort of became fast 633 00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:44,419 friends he sort of said you know you 634 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:45,679 should look at this UFO thing a little 635 00:29:50,650 --> 00:29:47,570 more he kind of shoved me into this 636 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:50,660 world of UFOs and I've been hooked ever 637 00:29:54,610 --> 00:29:51,490 since 638 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:54,620 studying sort of the UFO discourse and a 639 00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:56,090 narrative and the phenomenon has been 640 00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,360 sort of very interesting for me and I 641 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:01,760 became a MUFON field investigator for a 642 00:30:08,590 --> 00:30:03,530 few years just to kind of get my feet 643 00:30:11,020 --> 00:30:08,600 wet and and really kind of see how UFO 644 00:30:12,460 --> 00:30:11,030 investigation works got into some 645 00:30:15,250 --> 00:30:12,470 research started a blog 646 00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:15,260 Tarab Spira which has been amazing and 647 00:30:20,409 --> 00:30:17,390 it's sort of culminated into a book 648 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:20,419 which you mentioned in the intro and and 649 00:30:26,049 --> 00:30:22,730 Here I am I don't know it's been six or 650 00:30:29,169 --> 00:30:26,059 yeah six years now five six years in 651 00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:29,179 this UFO world and and it's been a blast 652 00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:30,320 that's for sure 653 00:30:36,850 --> 00:30:32,990 yeah yeah I say that I say the same 654 00:30:37,780 --> 00:30:36,860 thing you know just the people that I've 655 00:30:39,850 --> 00:30:37,790 met along the way 656 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:39,860 you know it was really actually you know 657 00:30:44,380 --> 00:30:41,330 it might sound corny but it's really 658 00:30:47,409 --> 00:30:44,390 enriched my life I've really felt things 659 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:47,419 or you know my life is better just 660 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:49,370 through all the interesting people I've 661 00:30:54,909 --> 00:30:52,850 met it's a great mystery that we're all 662 00:30:56,530 --> 00:30:54,919 looking at and there's a lot of really 663 00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:56,540 intelligent people trying to figure this 664 00:31:00,280 --> 00:30:58,880 thing out whatever it is and and it 665 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:00,290 makes a very reward 666 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:02,210 really enjoy it a lot and that's yeah 667 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:05,090 it's been wow it's gonna be eight years 668 00:31:09,430 --> 00:31:08,330 coming up in this this November so I'm 669 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:09,440 pretty happy about that 670 00:31:15,390 --> 00:31:12,170 yeah well doing the show yeah yeah 671 00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:15,400 you're sure I mean I read your show is 672 00:31:19,690 --> 00:31:17,960 it's it's a Camus vement you know what I 673 00:31:22,690 --> 00:31:19,700 mean I find like you know when I first 674 00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:22,700 got into UFOs I had nowhere to go and I 675 00:31:26,980 --> 00:31:24,260 guess the podcast UFO was one of the 676 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:26,990 first ones I found on like Apple my 677 00:31:31,510 --> 00:31:30,170 Apple thing and yeah it just 678 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:31,520 I've been listening to it and and 679 00:31:34,420 --> 00:31:33,050 keeping track and just kind of popping 680 00:31:35,980 --> 00:31:34,430 on every once in a while and listening 681 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:35,990 to you know a bunch of episodes and then 682 00:31:39,070 --> 00:31:37,850 coming back a few months later listening 683 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:39,080 to a bunch of episodes because I you 684 00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:40,250 know it might drives to work right 685 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:42,110 catching up on all your episodes so it's 686 00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:43,610 I've been asked for all the new people 687 00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:45,200 out in the UFO world podcast UFO is a 688 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:46,670 good place to be because it's it's it's 689 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:51,410 a good sensical and and sensible look at 690 00:31:57,580 --> 00:31:53,930 UFOs it's not sort of crazy talk 691 00:32:00,040 --> 00:31:57,590 which is nice well thank you crazy talk 692 00:32:02,260 --> 00:32:00,050 to us well though I mean it's a great 693 00:32:03,730 --> 00:32:02,270 popular unfortunately yeah but but 694 00:32:05,890 --> 00:32:03,740 anyway I do appreciate that a lot 695 00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:05,900 and you know I did pick that name I know 696 00:32:12,250 --> 00:32:09,110 I I had spoken to someone a web person 697 00:32:15,070 --> 00:32:12,260 and I said I want to do a podcast on 698 00:32:17,890 --> 00:32:15,080 UFOs what's the best way to get the best 699 00:32:20,860 --> 00:32:17,900 traffic and he said name it podcast or 700 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:20,870 name it UFO podcast I guess the URL was 701 00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:24,710 not available so podcast UFO and that's 702 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:26,240 how I named the show that's pretty funny 703 00:32:30,850 --> 00:32:28,490 but you found it right away and then it 704 00:32:32,290 --> 00:32:30,860 does get a lot of traffic so oh yeah you 705 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:32,300 punch in UFO it's like the first thing 706 00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:34,730 that pops up yeah right yeah yeah yeah 707 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:39,440 so work so your your your blog your your 708 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:40,970 website when do you how long ago did you 709 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:45,410 start that it would have been well I 710 00:32:50,650 --> 00:32:47,410 think I've been running it now for about 711 00:32:54,670 --> 00:32:50,660 five maybe four four and a half five 712 00:32:58,270 --> 00:32:54,680 years I've been writing bass I think so 713 00:32:59,890 --> 00:32:58,280 it would have been 20 I don't know what 714 00:33:02,350 --> 00:32:59,900 he is it now 20 19 so it would have been 715 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:02,360 20 15 ish I guess for 2016 I would have 716 00:33:06,580 --> 00:33:04,850 started doing blog posts and doing more 717 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:06,590 research into that maybe longer I hope 718 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:07,970 you know it's like the time is so weird 719 00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:10,130 right you forget something that happened 720 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:11,390 a year ago feels like it happened a few 721 00:33:16,370 --> 00:33:14,130 weeks ago so yeah I think 2015 722 00:33:19,010 --> 00:33:16,380 sixteen is when my blog start no 2015's 723 00:33:21,380 --> 00:33:19,020 on my blog started blog started and 724 00:33:22,970 --> 00:33:21,390 that's really when my research began for 725 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:22,980 the book I had no idea I was writing a 726 00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:25,050 book at that point that's usually how it 727 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:26,070 works right yeah 728 00:33:32,270 --> 00:33:29,970 but it yeah it's been five years now I 729 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:32,280 think which is it's been crazy 730 00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:35,970 I joined MUFON shortly after that and 731 00:33:40,460 --> 00:33:39,240 that was 2016 I joined MUFON and became 732 00:33:42,170 --> 00:33:40,470 a field investigator and I did that for 733 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:42,180 a couple years so I I left 734 00:33:47,150 --> 00:33:44,370 no I'm telling a lie I must enjoy MUFON 735 00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:47,160 in 2015 and I did two and a half years 736 00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:49,140 or roughly three years of Investigations 737 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:50,760 and then I left 738 00:33:55,010 --> 00:33:52,530 due to sort of political reasons I think 739 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:55,020 we all remember that sort of dark weird 740 00:33:58,930 --> 00:33:56,850 Road MUFON went down there for a bit 741 00:34:01,970 --> 00:33:58,940 with some of its with a state director 742 00:34:04,430 --> 00:34:01,980 or one of its state directors rather so 743 00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:04,440 I left because of that a little bit of 744 00:34:10,129 --> 00:34:07,380 an exodus I think so I think a lot of 745 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:10,139 people kind of felt that move but it's 746 00:34:14,270 --> 00:34:11,490 interesting because my you know I wrote 747 00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:14,280 a book about the UFO subculture and the 748 00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:16,110 community of people so it's interesting 749 00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:17,820 that that this acted almost as a 750 00:34:21,470 --> 00:34:20,129 catalyst for some people to to sort of 751 00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:21,480 say you know what I can't be with this 752 00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:23,550 organization anymore due to political 753 00:34:27,950 --> 00:34:25,740 reasons and it only kind of goes to show 754 00:34:29,869 --> 00:34:27,960 that the UFO phenomenon and the UFO 755 00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:29,879 discourse and the people who engage in 756 00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:32,250 UFO conversations serve our political 757 00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:34,470 people there's a lot of politics 758 00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:37,500 involved in the study of UFOs so and 759 00:34:41,720 --> 00:34:39,060 race politics is one of them that's for 760 00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:41,730 sure and and case in point right when 761 00:34:46,369 --> 00:34:44,220 when that whole event occurred you had a 762 00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:46,379 lot of people just simply say I can't I 763 00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:49,440 can't be involved anymore because of you 764 00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:51,510 know the way this was handled and yeah 765 00:34:55,369 --> 00:34:53,460 it's a shame that had happened but you 766 00:34:59,210 --> 00:34:55,379 know it is what it is right yeah yeah 767 00:35:00,770 --> 00:34:59,220 and you know it's it there's a you know 768 00:35:04,220 --> 00:35:00,780 there's been a few other things 769 00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:04,230 happening with MUFON in the last few 770 00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:05,790 months I'm sure you've noticed that too 771 00:35:13,150 --> 00:35:10,440 or saw that yeah so yeah and some people 772 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:13,160 say oh it's just a disgruntled 773 00:35:17,930 --> 00:35:15,690 administrator but there may be more to 774 00:35:19,580 --> 00:35:17,940 it I don't know I I really don't like to 775 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:19,590 get involved too much in the negative 776 00:35:27,740 --> 00:35:23,250 side of things going on in the politics 777 00:35:30,289 --> 00:35:27,750 of UFOs but but it's there 778 00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:30,299 I do want to tell the listener something 779 00:35:35,059 --> 00:35:33,030 I I watch your YouTube channel and it's 780 00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,069 just your name basically right to get to 781 00:35:40,279 --> 00:35:37,440 the channel yeah yeah punch it in 782 00:35:43,849 --> 00:35:40,289 MJ benaiah and I got to tell you it is 783 00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:43,859 very very entertaining you or you are 784 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:45,839 great you do such a wonderful job in 785 00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:48,180 that and you review books you review all 786 00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,200 kinds of things you want to talk a 787 00:35:53,059 --> 00:35:51,359 little bit about that and and sure 788 00:35:56,029 --> 00:35:53,069 that's going in and by the way I really 789 00:35:58,220 --> 00:35:56,039 encourage any listener to check that out 790 00:36:00,289 --> 00:35:58,230 it's it's a blast I look forward to each 791 00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:00,299 one of those shows oh well then all 792 00:36:03,710 --> 00:36:01,710 thanks for the plug that's a it's really 793 00:36:08,089 --> 00:36:03,720 nice um yeah so might my youtube channel 794 00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:08,099 is youtube wo youtube.com /mj be nice 795 00:36:12,890 --> 00:36:11,460 just punch in my name and it's a 796 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:12,900 relatively new thing I started it 797 00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:17,010 started a few months ago and and the 798 00:36:23,150 --> 00:36:20,280 idea was to to take my blog tera obscura 799 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:23,160 and kind of move it over and provide 800 00:36:28,819 --> 00:36:25,770 some video content because I think 801 00:36:31,010 --> 00:36:28,829 sometimes my blog I'm one of those one 802 00:36:33,890 --> 00:36:31,020 of those people that I tell myself I'm 803 00:36:35,690 --> 00:36:33,900 gonna write an 800 word post and then it 804 00:36:38,990 --> 00:36:35,700 ends up being 2500 words and it's 805 00:36:40,819 --> 00:36:39,000 incredibly long and convoluted and so I 806 00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,829 think a lot of my readers were getting 807 00:36:45,769 --> 00:36:42,960 just a little frustrated with the fact 808 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:45,779 that you know my my content wasn't you 809 00:36:49,099 --> 00:36:47,730 know you kind of read it and go it's you 810 00:36:53,539 --> 00:36:49,109 need to dedicate you know an evening 811 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:53,549 game to kind of reading so so it was 812 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:54,930 sort of pitched to me this idea that you 813 00:36:59,839 --> 00:36:56,490 know maybe you should take some of your 814 00:37:02,240 --> 00:36:59,849 content from your blog and and tweak it 815 00:37:05,660 --> 00:37:02,250 and and just bring it into sort of 816 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:05,670 YouTube and and make it a little more 817 00:37:10,730 --> 00:37:07,410 accessible and make it more digestible 818 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:10,740 in like a 5 to 10 to 15 minute kind of 819 00:37:17,539 --> 00:37:13,890 just go go go here the points so I 820 00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:17,549 decided to do it so twice a week I 821 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:20,160 release new videos so every Tuesday I 822 00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:23,250 release a pre-recorded video so it'll be 823 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:26,520 usually a review of a documentary or a 824 00:37:32,660 --> 00:37:28,650 book all related to the paranormal or 825 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:32,670 UFOs or all I'll release just a sort of 826 00:37:39,019 --> 00:37:34,770 a random video my last one that just 827 00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:39,029 came out was three three secrets of all 828 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:40,950 UFO investigators sort of the three 829 00:37:42,860 --> 00:37:41,370 secret 830 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:42,870 that that UFO investigators don't 831 00:37:46,190 --> 00:37:44,970 necessarily want you to know or the 832 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:46,200 three things you kind of need to know if 833 00:37:49,540 --> 00:37:47,730 you ever want to get into you and UFO 834 00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:49,550 investigation so I have videos like that 835 00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:52,830 and it basically talks about sort of the 836 00:37:57,470 --> 00:37:55,920 the implications and and the cultural 837 00:37:58,640 --> 00:37:57,480 issues and the social issues that arise 838 00:38:01,220 --> 00:37:58,650 and the political issues that arise in 839 00:38:03,050 --> 00:38:01,230 ufology so so that's every Tuesday and 840 00:38:04,970 --> 00:38:03,060 then every Thursday I have a little pre 841 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:04,980 or a little live show I do called cafe 842 00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,650 obscura where I just interview some of 843 00:38:14,050 --> 00:38:10,320 the the movers and the Shakers in in the 844 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:14,060 paranormal world and and I've had 845 00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:16,650 amazing guests mark O'Connell who wrote 846 00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:17,640 the Close Encounters Man 847 00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:20,400 dr. Gary Nolan who from Stanford 848 00:38:28,850 --> 00:38:24,270 University I've interviewed Ryan Sprague 849 00:38:29,690 --> 00:38:28,860 a friend of ours I've interviewed oh my 850 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:29,700 goodness 851 00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:31,650 Seth Breedlove's coming up from small 852 00:38:37,220 --> 00:38:35,220 town monsters Alison join 'ln Eric Luke 853 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:37,230 so I've introduced of people so you know 854 00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:38,250 if you want to check that out they're 855 00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,960 all available on my channel as well so 856 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:41,760 like I said it's been kind of a fun 857 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:43,530 process but it seems to be doing well I 858 00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:45,810 have about 700 subscribers which is not 859 00:38:51,050 --> 00:38:48,720 a lot I understand but it's been a few 860 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:51,060 months and and it's growing steadily so 861 00:38:55,130 --> 00:38:53,490 if you're interested click Subscribe as 862 00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:55,140 they always say right yeah down below 863 00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:56,910 yeah ya know it takes a long time to 864 00:39:00,350 --> 00:38:58,890 this this channel has been up for four 865 00:39:02,810 --> 00:39:00,360 years it takes a long time to build up 866 00:39:03,980 --> 00:39:02,820 you know an audience and you just keep 867 00:39:06,290 --> 00:39:03,990 what you're doing is what you're doing 868 00:39:10,610 --> 00:39:06,300 is really good and you will watch that 869 00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:10,620 it will grow I guarantee that and the 870 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:13,020 only magic is to just keep doing it on a 871 00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:15,330 regular basis and doing what you do such 872 00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:18,180 a great job that you do yeah thank you 873 00:39:21,980 --> 00:39:18,660 very much 874 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:21,990 yeah sure so I'm trying to remember 875 00:39:25,790 --> 00:39:23,970 what's your first book can you kind of 876 00:39:27,110 --> 00:39:25,800 talk about that a little bit what your 877 00:39:29,090 --> 00:39:27,120 first book was and then we'll of course 878 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:29,100 we're gonna talk about your your latest 879 00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:32,610 book but just a quick overall for the 880 00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:34,260 person that missed your show you know 881 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:36,960 over a year ago if you would sure so I 882 00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:38,970 was involved in a project actually I was 883 00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,940 one of the writers in in a it was a sort 884 00:39:46,580 --> 00:39:43,920 of a collection of works called UFOs 885 00:39:48,740 --> 00:39:46,590 reframing the debate so Robbie Graham 886 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:48,750 who is he's an author as well he he put 887 00:39:54,620 --> 00:39:51,890 together a collection of different UFO 888 00:39:55,340 --> 00:39:54,630 writers and researchers and we all 889 00:39:58,190 --> 00:39:55,350 contribute 890 00:40:00,740 --> 00:39:58,200 did a chapter to this collection and the 891 00:40:05,330 --> 00:40:00,750 best way to explain UFOs reframing the 892 00:40:06,860 --> 00:40:05,340 debate is III think the best way is 893 00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:06,870 worded right on the back of the book 894 00:40:13,130 --> 00:40:10,110 it's it's a it's a cold hard slap to the 895 00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:13,140 face of ufology and it's kind of looking 896 00:40:19,850 --> 00:40:17,280 at the phenomenon and the people and the 897 00:40:21,830 --> 00:40:19,860 conversation about UFOs in a different 898 00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:21,840 way so so examining it from different 899 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:24,440 angles talking about some of the more 900 00:40:29,090 --> 00:40:27,090 maybe cultural or political aspects of 901 00:40:32,780 --> 00:40:29,100 the phenomenon starting to move away 902 00:40:36,610 --> 00:40:32,790 from a lot of the ideology that exists 903 00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:36,620 so you know believing in aliens or or 904 00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,420 believing in reptilians and and blue 905 00:40:44,330 --> 00:40:41,760 avians or whatever you know starting to 906 00:40:46,010 --> 00:40:44,340 kind of deconstruct those beliefs and 907 00:40:48,290 --> 00:40:46,020 and and really questioning why we 908 00:40:50,660 --> 00:40:48,300 believe those things and moving on to 909 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:50,670 sort of where you follow gene needs to 910 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:53,490 to go so that was sort of the purpose of 911 00:40:58,940 --> 00:40:56,130 that book and my particular chapter had 912 00:41:03,460 --> 00:40:58,950 to do with economics and what would 913 00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:03,470 happen to like our economic systems if 914 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:07,260 it was proven that there was some sort 915 00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:09,570 of intelligent other out there not 916 00:41:11,660 --> 00:41:09,960 necessarily 917 00:41:14,510 --> 00:41:11,670 aliens but what if there was some other 918 00:41:16,850 --> 00:41:14,520 intelligence would we see a sort of 919 00:41:18,380 --> 00:41:16,860 shaking down of our political and 920 00:41:20,780 --> 00:41:18,390 economic systems well it happened to our 921 00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:20,790 society and our culture if it turned out 922 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:22,140 that you know there was some sort of 923 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:24,810 intelligence out there using UFOs or 924 00:41:29,540 --> 00:41:27,570 flying UFOs or whatever in our skies so 925 00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:29,550 that was that that was the first book or 926 00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:31,590 the first sort of big project I was 927 00:41:36,740 --> 00:41:34,200 involved in with Robbie Graham and 928 00:41:39,110 --> 00:41:36,750 reframing the debate mm-hmm again we'll 929 00:41:40,910 --> 00:41:39,120 talk about your your latest book of 930 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:40,920 course but I do want to talk about the 931 00:41:48,740 --> 00:41:45,770 last segment that was before you I had 932 00:41:53,180 --> 00:41:48,750 the same person you interviewed anthony 933 00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:53,190 lepe um and I really don't know if I 934 00:41:58,960 --> 00:41:56,760 pronounced that correctly I feel like it 935 00:42:02,540 --> 00:41:58,970 is I feel like that's right yeah yeah so 936 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:02,550 anyway I I know that you you have 937 00:42:08,810 --> 00:42:06,810 watched the the same thing that I 938 00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:08,820 watched and I just wanted to get your 939 00:42:11,210 --> 00:42:09,270 ear 940 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:11,220 feedback I thought it was great and of 941 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:12,810 course I mentioned that in the first 942 00:42:18,290 --> 00:42:15,090 part of the show and I wanted to hear 943 00:42:20,420 --> 00:42:18,300 what you thought overall yeah yeah I'm 944 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:20,430 one unidentified right yeah I'm sorry 945 00:42:25,010 --> 00:42:22,890 yes of course we will give no spoilers 946 00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:25,020 to the listener because it's coming out 947 00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:27,150 and you know real soon yeah that's 948 00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:28,470 that's thanks for reminding me because I 949 00:42:32,690 --> 00:42:30,300 wouldn't start it this is what happens 950 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:32,700 yeah it's like Game of Thrones right you 951 00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:34,410 can't go on facebook without seating 952 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:36,030 what happened yeah and I haven't seen it 953 00:42:43,070 --> 00:42:38,610 yet so let's just be cool yeah so 954 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:43,080 they're all death ya know 955 00:42:48,290 --> 00:42:46,170 so unidentified was was very well done I 956 00:42:50,030 --> 00:42:48,300 had the opportunity to interview Anthony 957 00:42:51,410 --> 00:42:50,040 lepay myself a few days ago actually 958 00:42:54,290 --> 00:42:51,420 over the phone I'm writing an article 959 00:42:57,050 --> 00:42:54,300 about the the TV show for mysterious 960 00:42:59,480 --> 00:42:57,060 universe I'm doing a sort of a first 961 00:43:01,850 --> 00:42:59,490 look can review so he he sat down with 962 00:43:04,610 --> 00:43:01,860 me for about 20 minutes on the phone and 963 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:04,620 I have to be honest that I thought the 964 00:43:09,110 --> 00:43:06,930 episode itself was great but talking to 965 00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,120 him and I'm sure like you know your 966 00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:11,760 previous segment with him you know you 967 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:14,430 you get such a better understanding of 968 00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:16,530 the behind the scenes stuff that that 969 00:43:24,650 --> 00:43:20,310 built that show you know they mentioned 970 00:43:26,570 --> 00:43:24,660 it once in in the episode itself but you 971 00:43:28,070 --> 00:43:26,580 find out that and Anthony probably you 972 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:28,080 know talks about this you find out like 973 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:29,730 they were with them for a year following 974 00:43:34,100 --> 00:43:32,370 them around sort of doing the work for 975 00:43:39,620 --> 00:43:34,110 this program so it's been a year in 976 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:39,630 production almost and the the detail and 977 00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:42,210 the information they provide is awesome 978 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:46,740 and the show isn't a typical UFO show 979 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:49,530 all right like they don't they don't say 980 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:52,650 the word alien once in the first episode 981 00:43:58,250 --> 00:43:56,130 it might kind of mention it in in 982 00:43:59,950 --> 00:43:58,260 further episodes or someone else will 983 00:44:03,440 --> 00:43:59,960 mention it like a witness or whatever 984 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:03,450 but it's like the the word alien it 985 00:44:06,940 --> 00:44:05,490 really never comes up which is really 986 00:44:08,810 --> 00:44:06,950 refreshing they don't talk about 987 00:44:10,340 --> 00:44:08,820 extraterrestrials they don't talk about 988 00:44:11,540 --> 00:44:10,350 interdimensional beings they don't talk 989 00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:11,550 about anything like that they just 990 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:14,640 simply talk about UFOs as we ought to 991 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:17,010 talk about them it's a sort of you know 992 00:44:23,150 --> 00:44:19,890 UFOs exist but we don't know anything 993 00:44:25,250 --> 00:44:23,160 about them apart from the fact that they 994 00:44:28,610 --> 00:44:25,260 behave in ways that you know sort of 995 00:44:30,590 --> 00:44:28,620 violate our current understanding of how 996 00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:30,600 things ought to move in the air or in 997 00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:34,800 the water or in space I suppose so it's 998 00:44:39,590 --> 00:44:36,390 such a good show because it's so 999 00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:39,600 grounded it's not going down weird roads 1000 00:44:43,940 --> 00:44:42,720 and and you're not talking about really 1001 00:44:46,340 --> 00:44:43,950 like you're not talking about 1002 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:46,350 alien-human hybrids or you know what I 1003 00:44:50,810 --> 00:44:47,850 mean like you there's no reptilians 1004 00:44:53,690 --> 00:44:50,820 mentioned it's wonderful you know like 1005 00:44:56,590 --> 00:44:53,700 yeah it's it's just from a down-to-earth 1006 00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:56,600 show that's very journalistic in nature 1007 00:45:01,850 --> 00:44:59,760 which is why I really enjoyed it I'm 1008 00:45:02,990 --> 00:45:01,860 really looking forward to all six 1009 00:45:04,940 --> 00:45:03,000 episodes yeah 1010 00:45:07,970 --> 00:45:04,950 just to kind of see where they go with 1011 00:45:09,260 --> 00:45:07,980 this yeah yeah yeah and if I really do 1012 00:45:11,050 --> 00:45:09,270 hope they expose the fact that 1013 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:11,060 reptilians are among us you know 1014 00:45:16,010 --> 00:45:13,530 eventually they should come out yeah 1015 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:16,020 well yeah we live in Antarctica right 1016 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:17,130 don't they is that we're all yeah well 1017 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:19,710 of course yeah and with Hitler secret 1018 00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:21,570 base up there he's still alive right 1019 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:23,910 yeah that's right that's all good yeah 1020 00:45:30,890 --> 00:45:29,010 yeah so what what is it like in Canada 1021 00:45:33,230 --> 00:45:30,900 as far as uh I mean we never really 1022 00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:33,240 talked about that before you know I know 1023 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:35,730 Chris I've talked to him a few times 1024 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:38,250 met him out at a conference and great 1025 00:45:45,260 --> 00:45:43,050 guy does a really nice job what do you 1026 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:45,270 keep you said you were involved in MUFON 1027 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:47,850 what are the sightings like in your John 1028 00:45:50,570 --> 00:45:49,050 I don't know exactly where you are in 1029 00:45:53,570 --> 00:45:50,580 Canada but what are the sightings like 1030 00:45:55,730 --> 00:45:53,580 are there any historic cases anywhere 1031 00:45:57,740 --> 00:45:55,740 near you that you've looked into yeah I 1032 00:45:59,900 --> 00:45:57,750 live in Winnipeg in the same city 1033 00:46:05,650 --> 00:45:59,910 Christo so right smack dab in the middle 1034 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:05,660 of the continent so so I would say our 1035 00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:10,050 landmark case in in at least near me is 1036 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:13,110 the Falcon Lake UFO encounter which was 1037 00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,170 with mihalick and and he was a 1038 00:46:21,890 --> 00:46:18,480 prospector an amateur prospector who was 1039 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:21,900 out in Falcon Lake which is sort of it's 1040 00:46:26,570 --> 00:46:24,570 like a resort kind of beach area I guess 1041 00:46:28,490 --> 00:46:26,580 you could say it's like a provincial or 1042 00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:28,500 Adam I guess it's a federal it's a 1043 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:31,710 federal park here it's massive like 1044 00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:33,450 thousands and thousands and thousands of 1045 00:46:36,890 --> 00:46:35,700 acres and it sits on Falcon Lake on the 1046 00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:36,900 coast 1047 00:46:41,749 --> 00:46:39,599 so on this massive lake and it's about 1048 00:46:45,170 --> 00:46:41,759 an hour and a half from where we live 1049 00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:45,180 and he was out it was 1967 summer my 1050 00:46:48,890 --> 00:46:47,099 camera crews no it was um it was 1051 00:46:52,999 --> 00:46:48,900 actually just it was May just the 1052 00:46:56,299 --> 00:46:53,009 anniversary just happened it was May 1053 00:47:00,829 --> 00:46:56,309 20th or 21st he was out prospecting and 1054 00:47:03,049 --> 00:47:00,839 the strange sort of object descends down 1055 00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:03,059 in front of it sort of saucer like craft 1056 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:05,609 and there's this open door and he thinks 1057 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:08,970 it's some you know strange American you 1058 00:47:13,759 --> 00:47:11,490 know aircraft or something so he goes in 1059 00:47:14,989 --> 00:47:13,769 and he yells inside you know asks and he 1060 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:14,999 literally says you know hey Yanks do you 1061 00:47:18,380 --> 00:47:15,930 need any help or something to that 1062 00:47:19,940 --> 00:47:18,390 effect and then the the most famous part 1063 00:47:22,670 --> 00:47:19,950 of the case is this thing suddenly kind 1064 00:47:25,730 --> 00:47:22,680 of turns and he gets blasted with this 1065 00:47:28,940 --> 00:47:25,740 hot gas that emits out the side of this 1066 00:47:30,739 --> 00:47:28,950 UFO and then it takes off and he has 1067 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:30,749 these burn marks and if you google the 1068 00:47:33,470 --> 00:47:32,130 Falcon Lake UFO case you'll see a 1069 00:47:35,180 --> 00:47:33,480 picture of him in hot in a hospital with 1070 00:47:38,269 --> 00:47:35,190 these odd burn marks near these sort of 1071 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:38,279 spots right in this grid shape and he 1072 00:47:42,170 --> 00:47:40,410 says it was like he was grilled almost 1073 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:42,180 yeah yeah except it wasn't there are 1074 00:47:46,670 --> 00:47:45,210 circles so they're not sort of like 1075 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:46,680 almost like grill lines they're these 1076 00:47:52,789 --> 00:47:49,410 odd round dots and they're in a perfect 1077 00:47:54,499 --> 00:47:52,799 sort of pattern and anyway the reason 1078 00:47:57,140 --> 00:47:54,509 why this case this the Falcon Lake case 1079 00:47:59,809 --> 00:47:57,150 is is so great and I've done one of my 1080 00:48:03,829 --> 00:47:59,819 actual YouTube episodes was reviewing 1081 00:48:05,390 --> 00:48:03,839 the book Chris wrote but it's such a 1082 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:05,400 good case because there's so much 1083 00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:08,249 documentation for it there's more 1084 00:48:12,380 --> 00:48:09,839 documentation for this case and there is 1085 00:48:14,299 --> 00:48:12,390 for Roswell for example you know the 1086 00:48:17,089 --> 00:48:14,309 Roswell cases is a landmark case in 1087 00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:17,099 ufology but the vast majority of the 1088 00:48:22,970 --> 00:48:20,460 paperwork for that case comes from sort 1089 00:48:24,739 --> 00:48:22,980 of secondhand witnesses or people who 1090 00:48:27,099 --> 00:48:24,749 heard stuff so you have reams and reams 1091 00:48:29,269 --> 00:48:27,109 of documentation for Roswell but really 1092 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:29,279 primary documentation does very little 1093 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:33,690 if anything wears in this case Bluebook 1094 00:48:39,259 --> 00:48:37,170 investigated it and Hallett got so sick 1095 00:48:41,900 --> 00:48:39,269 that he had to go to the Mayo Clinic in 1096 00:48:42,979 --> 00:48:41,910 Minneapolis and the doctors there had no 1097 00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:42,989 idea what was wrong with him they 1098 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:44,460 basically said he got burned he had 1099 00:48:48,019 --> 00:48:46,410 radiation burns and he was suffering 1100 00:48:50,690 --> 00:48:48,029 from radiation sickness and poisoning 1101 00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:50,700 but you know how does a prospect 1102 00:48:54,319 --> 00:48:52,440 out in the middle of nowhere suddenly 1103 00:48:56,089 --> 00:48:54,329 get exposed to that much radiation to 1104 00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,099 the point where it burns him and he gets 1105 00:49:03,859 --> 00:48:58,800 sort of repeatedly ill they we you know 1106 00:49:07,310 --> 00:49:03,869 Chris has a piece of silver that was 1107 00:49:08,690 --> 00:49:07,320 melted onto sort of this rock that this 1108 00:49:10,250 --> 00:49:08,700 thing landed in kind of between a 1109 00:49:13,849 --> 00:49:10,260 crevasse and it's highly radioactive 1110 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:13,859 even to this day yeah it's it's he keeps 1111 00:49:18,380 --> 00:49:15,930 it in his office in this sort of glass 1112 00:49:19,940 --> 00:49:18,390 containers and he says they're 1113 00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:19,950 protecting him from the radiation but I 1114 00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:21,089 have to be honest every time I meet him 1115 00:49:25,700 --> 00:49:23,880 he seems a little crazier so maybe it's 1116 00:49:28,609 --> 00:49:25,710 I think you need lead for that don't you 1117 00:49:30,530 --> 00:49:28,619 rotting brain yeah who knows anyway it's 1118 00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:30,540 interesting we were talking in his 1119 00:49:33,770 --> 00:49:32,609 office and I it's on YouTube where he 1120 00:49:34,970 --> 00:49:33,780 pulls this thing out and he says well 1121 00:49:36,260 --> 00:49:34,980 here we should check this out he hands 1122 00:49:37,819 --> 00:49:36,270 me this piece of metal and I go what's 1123 00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:37,829 this and he's like oh it's a it's a 1124 00:49:42,380 --> 00:49:40,079 piece of silver from a that melted from 1125 00:49:44,089 --> 00:49:42,390 a UFO and it's highly radioactive and I 1126 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:44,099 mean I'm just like ah well I guess I'm 1127 00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:46,290 having kids anymore that's it it's over 1128 00:49:51,290 --> 00:49:48,420 you know but in such an it's such a 1129 00:49:53,329 --> 00:49:51,300 great case because you had the police 1130 00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:53,339 investigated you had Air Force you had 1131 00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:56,880 military various government agencies we 1132 00:50:01,089 --> 00:49:58,800 have testing results from a lot of the 1133 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:01,099 equipment he was wearing that got burned 1134 00:50:08,359 --> 00:50:05,130 so you know it's such a landmark case at 1135 00:50:11,150 --> 00:50:08,369 least for us here and and yet a lot of 1136 00:50:13,490 --> 00:50:11,160 people have never heard of it but it's 1137 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:13,500 incredibly compelling it's more 1138 00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:14,970 compelling than Roswell and in my 1139 00:50:19,849 --> 00:50:18,150 opinion because of the documentation and 1140 00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:19,859 because ultimately documents don't lie 1141 00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:21,960 right the Mayo Clinic paperwork that 1142 00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:23,910 this guy had after he got sick is not 1143 00:50:27,620 --> 00:50:26,310 telling any lies right the doctors say 1144 00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:27,630 this is what he had that's what he had 1145 00:50:33,620 --> 00:50:31,200 so it's a it's a it's a it's an amazing 1146 00:50:36,859 --> 00:50:33,630 case but that would be ours for sure Wow 1147 00:50:40,420 --> 00:50:36,869 Wow now we just got like a minute and a 1148 00:50:44,359 --> 00:50:40,430 half here before we go to break but did 1149 00:50:46,700 --> 00:50:44,369 did people try to consider that you know 1150 00:50:48,620 --> 00:50:46,710 debunkers say that was a hoax and if so 1151 00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:48,630 what did they what did they say they 1152 00:50:53,809 --> 00:50:51,359 thought happened yeah the the common one 1153 00:50:56,030 --> 00:50:53,819 was he got the heat like he blowing 1154 00:50:58,460 --> 00:50:56,040 himself on a barbeque that was the 1155 00:51:02,000 --> 00:50:58,470 common right he like purposefully either 1156 00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:02,010 drunk and he fell on a barbecue or he he 1157 00:51:07,670 --> 00:51:04,710 took like a grill and 1158 00:51:09,470 --> 00:51:07,680 himself purposefully with it or he 1159 00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,480 burned himself accidentally and then 1160 00:51:14,540 --> 00:51:12,000 turned it into something that it wasn't 1161 00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,550 well the problem is you know burning 1162 00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,319 yourself on a barbecue isn't gonna lead 1163 00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,000 to you getting radiation sickness to the 1164 00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,400 point where the Mayo Clinic says ya know 1165 00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:22,559 you have like a radiation sickness yeah 1166 00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:25,200 so I'm not sure how the the skeptics and 1167 00:51:29,329 --> 00:51:26,520 the debunkers kind of got away with that 1168 00:51:31,690 --> 00:51:29,339 one but yeah yeah that's a that's a 1169 00:51:35,660 --> 00:51:31,700 pretty funny one actually but 1170 00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:35,670 interesting so yeah and did he live for 1171 00:51:40,099 --> 00:51:38,730 a long time after then yeah he did he 1172 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:40,109 lived for four I think 1173 00:51:47,870 --> 00:51:42,690 another 20 or 30 years or so I mean he 1174 00:51:50,809 --> 00:51:47,880 lived well into his 80s but he got 1175 00:51:54,319 --> 00:51:50,819 recurringly ill so those scars and those 1176 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:54,329 burns would resurface every few years so 1177 00:51:58,880 --> 00:51:56,130 he would get this big inflamed mark 1178 00:52:00,980 --> 00:51:58,890 where he got burned on his side yeah and 1179 00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:00,990 he become quite ill for several weeks 1180 00:52:05,569 --> 00:52:03,720 and then it would go away and then he'd 1181 00:52:07,970 --> 00:52:05,579 be fine for a year or two and then it 1182 00:52:10,940 --> 00:52:07,980 would flare up again and again that's 1183 00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:10,950 all documented so you know we have the 1184 00:52:14,660 --> 00:52:12,480 paperwork on that too so that was a 1185 00:52:16,849 --> 00:52:14,670 pretty bad barbeque burn I guess yeah 1186 00:52:18,980 --> 00:52:16,859 Wow all right well it's time for us to 1187 00:52:21,980 --> 00:52:18,990 go to break so hang in there everyone 1188 00:52:26,660 --> 00:52:21,990 we'll be right back right after these 1189 00:52:46,939 --> 00:52:33,340 [Applause] 1190 00:52:52,890 --> 00:52:50,669 all right welcome back my guest this my 1191 00:52:56,909 --> 00:52:52,900 second guest this evening is MJ van 1192 00:52:59,370 --> 00:52:56,919 Dyess thanks for joining us and so we 1193 00:53:02,370 --> 00:52:59,380 were talking about the poor guy with the 1194 00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:02,380 that laid down face-first on the 1195 00:53:07,079 --> 00:53:05,529 barbecue grill yeah I didn't realize 1196 00:53:09,539 --> 00:53:07,089 those were actually circular that makes 1197 00:53:10,649 --> 00:53:09,549 it even stranger you know I I have seen 1198 00:53:13,049 --> 00:53:10,659 the picture it's as black and white 1199 00:53:17,549 --> 00:53:13,059 pictures of him you know with those 1200 00:53:18,539 --> 00:53:17,559 burns but but you know we right before 1201 00:53:21,390 --> 00:53:18,549 we went to break we were talking about 1202 00:53:24,299 --> 00:53:21,400 the debunkers and what they said you 1203 00:53:25,890 --> 00:53:24,309 know their excuse or whatever but what 1204 00:53:27,899 --> 00:53:25,900 about the people that you know really 1205 00:53:30,419 --> 00:53:27,909 believed something was going on you said 1206 00:53:33,029 --> 00:53:30,429 that Chris had something from the site 1207 00:53:34,829 --> 00:53:33,039 itself so people were and it was 1208 00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:34,839 investigated by Project Blue Book 1209 00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:38,319 what about any Canadian organizations as 1210 00:53:43,140 --> 00:53:39,609 far as investigating do you know 1211 00:53:46,969 --> 00:53:43,150 anything about that well listen at the 1212 00:53:50,159 --> 00:53:46,979 time Canada did not have any formal UFO 1213 00:53:52,229 --> 00:53:50,169 investigative bodies so we do know that 1214 00:53:54,959 --> 00:53:52,239 the Canadian Air Force did investigate 1215 00:53:58,529 --> 00:53:54,969 we know that Transport Canada did 1216 00:54:00,959 --> 00:53:58,539 investigate but again as well as the 1217 00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:00,969 RCMP which is sort of equivalent to at 1218 00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:05,049 the FBI so so we do know that the Kane 1219 00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:06,880 government did have sort of multiple 1220 00:54:12,649 --> 00:54:10,689 agencies look at this case but a lot of 1221 00:54:16,199 --> 00:54:12,659 them made you know the similar 1222 00:54:18,989 --> 00:54:16,209 conclusions that it was nothing you know 1223 00:54:20,759 --> 00:54:18,999 he he got drunk and burned himself there 1224 00:54:23,309 --> 00:54:20,769 was a lot of there was a lot of it 1225 00:54:25,259 --> 00:54:23,319 became problematic because when the Air 1226 00:54:29,219 --> 00:54:25,269 Force did come to investigate it was 1227 00:54:31,769 --> 00:54:29,229 about a year after the event and he 1228 00:54:34,739 --> 00:54:31,779 couldn't remember exactly where it all 1229 00:54:36,929 --> 00:54:34,749 occurred so he sort of took these Air 1230 00:54:38,219 --> 00:54:36,939 Force guys on a bit of a you know I 1231 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:38,229 don't use the term wild goose chase but 1232 00:54:40,530 --> 00:54:38,950 he was 1233 00:54:43,410 --> 00:54:40,540 trying to get back to the site but we 1234 00:54:45,359 --> 00:54:43,420 need to understand there's no roads to 1235 00:54:48,089 --> 00:54:45,369 this site this is you're in the 1236 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:48,099 backwoods of the forests of Canada like 1237 00:54:52,530 --> 00:54:50,410 you're deep in the middle of nowhere 1238 00:54:54,990 --> 00:54:52,540 even today the only way to get to that 1239 00:54:56,910 --> 00:54:55,000 site is by horseback in the summertime 1240 00:54:59,010 --> 00:54:56,920 because there's no roads that go there 1241 00:55:02,670 --> 00:54:59,020 and in the wintertime you have to take 1242 00:55:05,099 --> 00:55:02,680 uh snowmobile or skidoo so really it's 1243 00:55:06,780 --> 00:55:05,109 it's it's a quite a remote location and 1244 00:55:09,569 --> 00:55:06,790 the and the only thing that stands there 1245 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:09,579 even right now is there's a little 1246 00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:11,050 plaque that stands there right now the 1247 00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:15,310 date that they put up but ultimately in 1248 00:55:22,140 --> 00:55:18,960 in 1967 and 1968 of the year after 1249 00:55:24,329 --> 00:55:22,150 trying to find out where he was he 1250 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:24,339 couldn't exactly remember now he 1251 00:55:28,740 --> 00:55:27,490 eventually did I think was a few months 1252 00:55:30,270 --> 00:55:28,750 later it came back to me he suddenly 1253 00:55:32,339 --> 00:55:30,280 kind of had the realization I know where 1254 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:32,349 this was and he did go back out with 1255 00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:35,530 sort of other government agencies but 1256 00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:37,089 you know they kind of viewed that as 1257 00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:40,720 being suspicious but they did go back 1258 00:55:44,910 --> 00:55:43,270 and they did find the sort of rock mount 1259 00:55:47,339 --> 00:55:44,920 where this thing landed and where he 1260 00:55:49,470 --> 00:55:47,349 sort of encountered it as well as these 1261 00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:49,480 radioactive pieces of sort of molten 1262 00:55:53,220 --> 00:55:52,569 silver that that will sort of left 1263 00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:53,230 behind 1264 00:55:57,510 --> 00:55:55,089 now we're not thinking that they fell 1265 00:55:59,010 --> 00:55:57,520 off the UFO but it was sort of a silver 1266 00:56:02,220 --> 00:55:59,020 that was in the rock that he was 1267 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:02,230 prospecting had melted and then kind of 1268 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:04,210 gotten into this weird crevice of this 1269 00:56:08,460 --> 00:56:06,010 rock and and kind of kept that shape as 1270 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:08,470 it cooled off but they were able to pry 1271 00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:10,210 it out and sure enough you know it 1272 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:12,310 resides here in Winnipeg and in the 1273 00:56:17,339 --> 00:56:15,010 office of Chris Rakowski this highly 1274 00:56:19,109 --> 00:56:17,349 radioactive piece of melted silver and 1275 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:19,119 in one of my videos like I said I sort 1276 00:56:22,829 --> 00:56:20,050 of hold it up to the cameras you can 1277 00:56:25,530 --> 00:56:22,839 kind of see this odd shape and you can 1278 00:56:28,530 --> 00:56:25,540 really sort of pause and look at the 1279 00:56:30,990 --> 00:56:28,540 thing it's quite an odd looking piece of 1280 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:31,000 molten metal but the Canadian 1281 00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:32,650 organizations kind of as well wrote it 1282 00:56:36,540 --> 00:56:33,609 off I think it was kind of in 1283 00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:36,550 everybody's best interest in 1967 1968 1284 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:39,910 1969 that sort of end of blue book era 1285 00:56:45,059 --> 00:56:43,690 to to make these things go away we don't 1286 00:56:46,319 --> 00:56:45,069 necessarily want to talk about them and 1287 00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:46,329 we don't want to talk about them in any 1288 00:56:51,630 --> 00:56:49,359 way that gives them legitimacy and and 1289 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:51,640 you know all they simply do is is they 1290 00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:52,930 just simply ignore the 1291 00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:54,190 vast majority of evidence right you 1292 00:56:56,730 --> 00:56:56,079 don't look at what the doctor said at 1293 00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,740 the Mayo Clinic 1294 00:57:00,210 --> 00:56:58,240 you don't look what the doctor said here 1295 00:57:01,859 --> 00:57:00,220 and you just simply say oh you know it's 1296 00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:01,869 something else it's not related and 1297 00:57:06,990 --> 00:57:04,480 that's it because I think we have to 1298 00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:07,000 remember Bluebook had little interest in 1299 00:57:11,970 --> 00:57:10,390 in actually investigating UFOs really it 1300 00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:11,980 was its purpose but its purpose was to 1301 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:16,720 make them go away right so no one's 1302 00:57:19,770 --> 00:57:18,010 gonna give this case a fair shake at 1303 00:57:22,890 --> 00:57:19,780 least back then right now what about 1304 00:57:27,210 --> 00:57:22,900 Wilbert Smith did i I've heard that name 1305 00:57:31,500 --> 00:57:27,220 many times up in Canada was he active 1306 00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:31,510 about that time you know I'm I'm not 1307 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:33,760 sure my my historical knowledge of 1308 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:36,250 Canadian ufology is is not very good the 1309 00:57:40,049 --> 00:57:38,170 name does sound familiar nothing I'm 1310 00:57:42,030 --> 00:57:40,059 sure Chris is gonna give me hell for not 1311 00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:42,040 you know I'll make sure he knows yeah 1312 00:57:47,970 --> 00:57:46,089 thanks yeah I'm not the one to ask about 1313 00:57:50,910 --> 00:57:47,980 Wilfred Smith at this point fortunately 1314 00:57:53,730 --> 00:57:50,920 sorry yes yeah well you know I think of 1315 00:57:58,620 --> 00:57:53,740 a couple of things you know when I think 1316 00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:58,630 of Canada and one of them is himself and 1317 00:58:06,270 --> 00:58:01,839 then there's uh no boy I'm gonna mess up 1318 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:06,280 his name Paul who helped hel Gert know 1319 00:58:11,069 --> 00:58:09,010 much thing oh hell yeah hell yeah yeah 1320 00:58:14,430 --> 00:58:11,079 yeah yeah yeah hell yeah yeah the former 1321 00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,440 defense minister yeah he's been a little 1322 00:58:19,740 --> 00:58:17,200 controversial over the years yeah I 1323 00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:19,750 think oh I don't say that yes yeah no I 1324 00:58:23,579 --> 00:58:21,609 mean you know he was he was the Minister 1325 00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:23,589 of Defense for our nation so you know he 1326 00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:25,359 deserved just all that credit and all 1327 00:58:30,599 --> 00:58:27,609 that respect but he has said a lot of 1328 00:58:34,289 --> 00:58:30,609 things that you know you kind of need to 1329 00:58:35,910 --> 00:58:34,299 take pause you know I remember he spoke 1330 00:58:38,069 --> 00:58:35,920 at a conference and he basically said 1331 00:58:40,940 --> 00:58:38,079 that people at the conference were 1332 00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:40,950 aliens and disguised and and he you know 1333 00:58:45,329 --> 00:58:43,089 addressed them in the audience you know 1334 00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:45,339 and and you're you kind of need to sit 1335 00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:46,809 there and say okay well we should just 1336 00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:50,130 take that for what it is and and move on 1337 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:53,490 because yeah he is quite controversial I 1338 00:58:57,900 --> 00:58:56,290 think to a lot of people in ufology he's 1339 00:59:00,180 --> 00:58:57,910 quite controversial because he has 1340 00:59:03,020 --> 00:59:00,190 stated a few things that you can't 1341 00:59:06,420 --> 00:59:03,030 really prove and he can't really prove 1342 00:59:06,810 --> 00:59:06,430 yeah so apparently the a lot of the 1343 00:59:08,580 --> 00:59:06,820 people 1344 00:59:10,380 --> 00:59:08,590 attendez conferences are aliens in 1345 00:59:13,710 --> 00:59:10,390 disguise and they just want to keep him 1346 00:59:14,850 --> 00:59:13,720 you know under surveillance well you 1347 00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:14,860 know as long as they pay for the 1348 00:59:18,330 --> 00:59:16,960 entrance fee you know right yeah yeah 1349 00:59:20,670 --> 00:59:18,340 the problem is they're aliens they 1350 00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,680 probably don't know that's true and you 1351 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:22,480 know my blog this week I mentioned 1352 00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:26,130 earlier is basically UFOs and money and 1353 00:59:31,710 --> 00:59:29,440 basically what that blog is about the 1354 00:59:35,070 --> 00:59:31,720 blogger Charles clear does a lot of 1355 00:59:38,370 --> 00:59:35,080 research into you know how people make 1356 00:59:39,540 --> 00:59:38,380 or do not make money in the UFO fields 1357 00:59:41,850 --> 00:59:39,550 and one of them is you know the 1358 00:59:44,070 --> 00:59:41,860 conferences and what it takes to put on 1359 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:44,080 a conferences it takes a lot of money 1360 00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:46,330 and a lot of courage to poet died those 1361 00:59:51,150 --> 00:59:48,310 conferences because people can lose 1362 00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:51,160 money easily and fast well I think I 1363 00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:52,570 think when you look at the the 1364 00:59:57,170 --> 00:59:54,490 successful conferences right you you you 1365 00:59:59,900 --> 00:59:57,180 do need you need to put bums and seats 1366 01:00:02,790 --> 00:59:59,910 and ultimately the most controversial 1367 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:02,800 carries yeah yeah yeah where aliens and 1368 01:00:07,140 --> 01:00:05,890 seats I guess if they do pay that's 1369 01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:07,150 right you know the most controversial 1370 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:08,890 characters are the ones who often 1371 01:00:13,050 --> 01:00:11,530 attract the biggest crowds yeah and 1372 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:13,060 unfortunately you need to kind of pepper 1373 01:00:18,660 --> 01:00:15,610 you need to pepper the good research 1374 01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:18,670 with a little bit of crazy sometimes I 1375 01:00:23,310 --> 01:00:20,470 think and that's and that's you know 1376 01:00:26,310 --> 01:00:23,320 that's that's unfortunate I you know 1377 01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:26,320 some it doesn't fortunate MUFON had 1378 01:00:32,220 --> 01:00:28,480 Corey good speak at their you know 1379 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:32,230 symposium a couple years ago so yeah you 1380 01:00:35,130 --> 01:00:33,610 know it is what it is you got to go a 1381 01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:35,140 little crazy sometimes yeah 1382 01:00:40,050 --> 01:00:37,450 yeah there was a there was a lot of 1383 01:00:43,290 --> 01:00:40,060 controversy about that I remember yeah a 1384 01:00:46,380 --> 01:00:43,300 few of someone on time travel as well to 1385 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:46,390 I believe I can remember that oh yeah 1386 01:00:51,060 --> 01:00:47,170 yeah sure 1387 01:00:53,100 --> 01:00:51,070 yeah yeah yeah but uh so you basically 1388 01:00:55,710 --> 01:00:53,110 said you know one of the things we've 1389 01:00:57,870 --> 01:00:55,720 never really talked about previously is 1390 01:01:00,270 --> 01:00:57,880 you said you also have an interest in 1391 01:01:03,210 --> 01:01:00,280 and ghosts and paranormal and stuff like 1392 01:01:07,590 --> 01:01:03,220 that do you do a lot of writing on on 1393 01:01:10,590 --> 01:01:07,600 that topic as well you know as I was 1394 01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:10,600 researching my book it came up often in 1395 01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:12,640 my research that a lot of individuals 1396 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:17,050 who who study UFOs are also incredibly 1397 01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:20,770 fascinated by ghost phenomena 1398 01:01:25,500 --> 01:01:23,440 psychic phenomena there they're 1399 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:25,510 interested in other odd paranormal 1400 01:01:32,490 --> 01:01:30,010 events monsters like Mothman Bigfoot 1401 01:01:35,099 --> 01:01:32,500 that type of thing and and a lot of 1402 01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:35,109 people who I spoke to believe that 1403 01:01:39,300 --> 01:01:36,250 there's some sort of connection between 1404 01:01:43,020 --> 01:01:39,310 all these phenomena so UFOs are simply 1405 01:01:47,730 --> 01:01:43,030 one excuse me UFOs are simply one aspect 1406 01:01:50,940 --> 01:01:47,740 of a larger paranormal I don't know 1407 01:01:53,099 --> 01:01:50,950 universe let's say it's a sort of grand 1408 01:01:55,050 --> 01:01:53,109 universe of all things paranormal are 1409 01:01:58,109 --> 01:01:55,060 connected and you know UFOs are just one 1410 01:02:00,780 --> 01:01:58,119 piece of that puzzle so III have been 1411 01:02:04,109 --> 01:02:00,790 doing a bit of research and writing into 1412 01:02:07,589 --> 01:02:04,119 those fields I really like actually like 1413 01:02:09,930 --> 01:02:07,599 like the monster phenomena right so so I 1414 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:09,940 guess we was called cryptozoology but 1415 01:02:14,490 --> 01:02:10,930 I'm not necessarily sure if that's 1416 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:14,500 that's the right term only because I 1417 01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:16,450 think cryptozoology deals with generally 1418 01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:18,550 animals or things that are biological 1419 01:02:24,690 --> 01:02:22,720 and not paranormal in nature so a 1420 01:02:26,370 --> 01:02:24,700 cryptozoologist would say Bigfoot is an 1421 01:02:28,410 --> 01:02:26,380 animal just like any other animal it 1422 01:02:30,930 --> 01:02:28,420 might be intelligent but it eats it 1423 01:02:32,910 --> 01:02:30,940 bleeds and if you shoot it it'll die and 1424 01:02:35,579 --> 01:02:32,920 then you can hold a body and and and get 1425 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:35,589 a million dollars for 'where's anything 1426 01:02:40,170 --> 01:02:36,970 worth more than that actually put and 1427 01:02:41,940 --> 01:02:40,180 yeah probably yeah but and then you have 1428 01:02:43,650 --> 01:02:41,950 this other branch of cryptozoology which 1429 01:02:45,089 --> 01:02:43,660 I'm kind of leery on calling it 1430 01:02:46,650 --> 01:02:45,099 cryptozoology but they're the ones who 1431 01:02:48,900 --> 01:02:46,660 believe that Bigfoot isn't a physical 1432 01:02:50,579 --> 01:02:48,910 creature it can become physical but it 1433 01:02:52,260 --> 01:02:50,589 sort of has more paranormal in nature 1434 01:02:54,870 --> 01:02:52,270 can kind of appear and disappear at 1435 01:02:57,480 --> 01:02:54,880 random it kind of exists in our 1436 01:02:59,550 --> 01:02:57,490 universal and it doesn't right so a lot 1437 01:03:02,160 --> 01:02:59,560 of those people also have interests in 1438 01:03:03,930 --> 01:03:02,170 UFOs so I'm started to kind of deal with 1439 01:03:05,700 --> 01:03:03,940 this this idea a little bit I'm not 1440 01:03:08,550 --> 01:03:05,710 really sure if I totally believe it yeah 1441 01:03:09,270 --> 01:03:08,560 you know I'm kind of you know I'm 1442 01:03:11,250 --> 01:03:09,280 willing to give it 1443 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:11,260 you know credence and credit and and 1444 01:03:17,690 --> 01:03:13,530 I'll think about it as a philosopher or 1445 01:03:19,950 --> 01:03:17,700 as a theorist but you know I'm kind of 1446 01:03:22,260 --> 01:03:19,960 compartmentalizing it into just you know 1447 01:03:23,550 --> 01:03:22,270 it could be you never know but I am 1448 01:03:25,170 --> 01:03:23,560 interested by that stuff I have to be 1449 01:03:27,990 --> 01:03:25,180 honest I was recently employing Pleasant 1450 01:03:31,050 --> 01:03:28,000 West Virginia and I was in country right 1451 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:31,060 yeah I was able to do a lot of research 1452 01:03:34,420 --> 01:03:32,890 and interviews with with Mothman 1453 01:03:37,030 --> 01:03:34,430 witnesses and 1454 01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:37,040 and and I went even at the museum and 1455 01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:38,240 did all that and met some interesting 1456 01:03:45,940 --> 01:03:43,010 characters there so it's quite an 1457 01:03:48,100 --> 01:03:45,950 interesting little piece of sort of UFO 1458 01:03:50,170 --> 01:03:48,110 history as well because John keel really 1459 01:03:52,270 --> 01:03:50,180 went in there and and gray bark as well 1460 01:03:53,950 --> 01:03:52,280 earlier but talked about how there was a 1461 01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:53,960 lot of UFO sightings connects with the 1462 01:03:57,010 --> 01:03:55,280 Mothman case and you had a lot of 1463 01:03:59,620 --> 01:03:57,020 strange poltergeist activity and other 1464 01:04:04,000 --> 01:03:59,630 sightings of other strange beings in the 1465 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:04,010 vicinity so you know maybe there is 1466 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:05,570 something to be said for the connection 1467 01:04:12,220 --> 01:04:08,210 between sort of all paranormal phenomena 1468 01:04:13,390 --> 01:04:12,230 and UFOs but then you know again you you 1469 01:04:15,370 --> 01:04:13,400 kind of need to just kind of sit there 1470 01:04:18,190 --> 01:04:15,380 and that I don't know Kemp maybe it is 1471 01:04:22,090 --> 01:04:18,200 maybe it isn't but but Mothman is such 1472 01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:22,100 an interesting idea and and for me it 1473 01:04:26,980 --> 01:04:23,210 was you know it was incredibly 1474 01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:26,990 compelling because you have this this 1475 01:04:32,770 --> 01:04:30,530 incredible connection between some sort 1476 01:04:34,810 --> 01:04:32,780 of odd physical objective events that 1477 01:04:37,030 --> 01:04:34,820 occurred people saw stuff or at least 1478 01:04:40,950 --> 01:04:37,040 somebody saw something and it started 1479 01:04:44,410 --> 01:04:40,960 the Mothman craze in in 1966-67 1480 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:44,420 66 and 67 so somebody saw something 1481 01:04:49,690 --> 01:04:46,130 right whatever was good a bird who knows 1482 01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:49,700 but somebody saw something but now you 1483 01:04:57,430 --> 01:04:53,650 when you go to Point Pleasant Mothman is 1484 01:05:01,570 --> 01:04:57,440 everywhere it's part of the fabric of 1485 01:05:03,850 --> 01:05:01,580 that community as well in a way it's 1486 01:05:06,610 --> 01:05:03,860 identical yeah antenna you know they 1487 01:05:08,830 --> 01:05:06,620 have a Mothman festival and it brings in 1488 01:05:10,420 --> 01:05:08,840 like something something like twenty or 1489 01:05:12,070 --> 01:05:10,430 thirty thousand people come to that 1490 01:05:13,930 --> 01:05:12,080 festival so imagine this tiny little 1491 01:05:16,930 --> 01:05:13,940 town which is basically three streets 1492 01:05:18,730 --> 01:05:16,940 you know has a population of like twelve 1493 01:05:19,570 --> 01:05:18,740 hundred people or something like that 1494 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:19,580 like it's tiny 1495 01:05:24,700 --> 01:05:22,730 and then suddenly you Jim like 30,000 1496 01:05:27,850 --> 01:05:24,710 people into it for a weekend 1497 01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:27,860 apparently pandemonium but apparently 1498 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:30,290 it's unbelievably amazing as well I'm 1499 01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:32,930 sorry I do want to go stay off the 1500 01:05:39,820 --> 01:05:37,490 bridge yes yeah especially but you have 1501 01:05:41,770 --> 01:05:39,830 this mix of mythology and reality 1502 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:41,780 forming right some objective event 1503 01:05:44,590 --> 01:05:42,890 occurred and now you have this 1504 01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:44,600 incredible myth that's built around the 1505 01:05:50,350 --> 01:05:47,330 Mothman and you're not sure where 1506 01:05:51,580 --> 01:05:50,360 reality and mythology kind of where it 1507 01:05:54,100 --> 01:05:51,590 all begins and where it all ends right 1508 01:05:58,660 --> 01:05:54,110 so it's become one sort of cohesive 1509 01:06:00,130 --> 01:05:58,670 thing and it's it's it's such an 1510 01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:00,140 interesting place to visit like if 1511 01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:01,130 anyone if you've never been to Point 1512 01:06:04,830 --> 01:06:02,510 Pleasant and you're in West Virginia you 1513 01:06:07,090 --> 01:06:04,840 should go check it out 1514 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:07,100 because I mean I got to go to the old 1515 01:06:11,770 --> 01:06:10,490 TNT factories I went there at night you 1516 01:06:13,630 --> 01:06:11,780 know walked around there and I just kind 1517 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:13,640 of looking you know like doing crazy 1518 01:06:19,690 --> 01:06:15,890 stuff that that you know I I'm normally 1519 01:06:22,620 --> 01:06:19,700 not able to do so so it was it was 1520 01:06:27,070 --> 01:06:22,630 thoroughly enjoyable to to have that fun 1521 01:06:29,020 --> 01:06:27,080 unfortunate I didn't see Mothman but you 1522 01:06:31,900 --> 01:06:29,030 get the feeling that that sort of 1523 01:06:33,820 --> 01:06:31,910 there's there's this reality for these 1524 01:06:36,700 --> 01:06:33,830 people who live there that kind of keeps 1525 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:36,710 moths mental lives and maybe that's what 1526 01:06:41,350 --> 01:06:38,810 people see maybe it's people's kind of 1527 01:06:44,770 --> 01:06:41,360 just need to have Mothman be part of the 1528 01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:44,780 town that makes Mothman real you know 1529 01:06:50,370 --> 01:06:46,640 whatever that means I know there were 1530 01:06:54,370 --> 01:06:50,380 there was some sightings purportedly in 1531 01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:54,380 Chicago in the last few years yeah in 1532 01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:57,170 2016 actually they started earlier but 1533 01:07:02,440 --> 01:06:58,880 they weren't we talked about and I know 1534 01:07:05,110 --> 01:07:02,450 Allison Jordan who is she's a she's in 1535 01:07:06,730 --> 01:07:05,120 Milwaukee she's a UFO investigator she 1536 01:07:08,950 --> 01:07:06,740 went to Chicago and and did a bunch of 1537 01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:08,960 investigating of those cases and they 1538 01:07:12,940 --> 01:07:10,370 started quite early on I think they 1539 01:07:14,860 --> 01:07:12,950 started like 2013 she was saying but it 1540 01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:14,870 really took off yet of there like a big 1541 01:07:21,010 --> 01:07:16,850 flap I suppose of Mothman sightings in 1542 01:07:23,380 --> 01:07:21,020 2016 and it's actually in the the new if 1543 01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:23,390 you know Seth Breedlove whose small town 1544 01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:25,250 monsters that's his studio he's a great 1545 01:07:28,300 --> 01:07:26,240 filmmaker he does these great 1546 01:07:29,860 --> 01:07:28,310 documentaries he did one on Mothman but 1547 01:07:31,810 --> 01:07:29,870 his recent his new one rather is coming 1548 01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:31,820 out in June it's called terror in the 1549 01:07:36,570 --> 01:07:34,250 skies and it talks about the 2016 1550 01:07:41,260 --> 01:07:36,580 Mothman cases it's a great documentary 1551 01:07:42,610 --> 01:07:41,270 but yeah it's an interesting little I 1552 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:42,620 don't know Mothman is such an 1553 01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:45,410 interesting I don't know it's one of my 1554 01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:47,930 favorite monster cases or cryptid cases 1555 01:07:51,730 --> 01:07:50,210 so you know you do see connections 1556 01:07:54,030 --> 01:07:51,740 between UFOs in that and people who are 1557 01:07:58,210 --> 01:07:54,040 interested in UFOs investigating Mothman 1558 01:08:00,320 --> 01:07:58,220 mm-hmm I know I had I don't know if you 1559 01:08:04,730 --> 01:08:00,330 ever heard of Paulino before 1560 01:08:08,510 --> 01:08:04,740 Paulino yeah he does a show on all kinds 1561 01:08:13,850 --> 01:08:08,520 of things UFOs him innocent been in a 1562 01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:13,860 good guy he has kind of a theory of sort 1563 01:08:19,670 --> 01:08:15,930 of the connection of everything which is 1564 01:08:22,670 --> 01:08:19,680 pretty fascinating and I I'm sort of 1565 01:08:24,440 --> 01:08:22,680 paraphrasing what the idea of it is is 1566 01:08:26,450 --> 01:08:24,450 like there is a connection and and 1567 01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:26,460 everything but I think he's thinking 1568 01:08:32,660 --> 01:08:28,799 more if I do have a right he's thinking 1569 01:08:34,940 --> 01:08:32,670 more of the interdimensional lines you 1570 01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:34,950 know that's why we see ghosts in another 1571 01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:37,770 dimension or you know out of a time step 1572 01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:40,170 or something you know right yeah that's 1573 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:41,730 very Jon cute right that's kind of what 1574 01:08:44,900 --> 01:08:42,930 John keel kind of proposed this 1575 01:08:46,870 --> 01:08:44,910 interdimensional kind of paranormal 1576 01:08:49,610 --> 01:08:46,880 system that kind of interferes with our 1577 01:08:51,050 --> 01:08:49,620 dimension I suppose and yet it manifests 1578 01:08:52,490 --> 01:08:51,060 in different ways which is why when 1579 01:08:54,530 --> 01:08:52,500 people are seeing this flying humanoid 1580 01:08:56,450 --> 01:08:54,540 they were also seeing strange UFOs and 1581 01:08:58,300 --> 01:08:56,460 the men in black and all these odd 1582 01:09:01,160 --> 01:08:58,310 characters walking around their town and 1583 01:09:03,349 --> 01:09:01,170 they were seeing other creatures and and 1584 01:09:05,329 --> 01:09:03,359 a whole other they had like weird 1585 01:09:07,099 --> 01:09:05,339 poltergeist activity and I mean you know 1586 01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:07,109 they blame the collapse of the bridge on 1587 01:09:14,300 --> 01:09:10,970 this stuff in in the Silver Bridge so 1588 01:09:16,490 --> 01:09:14,310 yeah you know it's it's a it's an 1589 01:09:18,650 --> 01:09:16,500 interesting theory I know that the 1590 01:09:20,510 --> 01:09:18,660 people who will investigate skinwalker 1591 01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:20,520 wrench.now sort of have a very similar 1592 01:09:23,930 --> 01:09:22,319 idea right the skinwalker ranch is a 1593 01:09:25,820 --> 01:09:23,940 sort of place where bring that up yeah 1594 01:09:28,220 --> 01:09:25,830 mmhmm yeah where you have this kind of 1595 01:09:30,349 --> 01:09:28,230 interdimensional force that sort of pops 1596 01:09:32,780 --> 01:09:30,359 in and out and it manifests in all these 1597 01:09:34,910 --> 01:09:32,790 different ways right UFOs to weird 1598 01:09:39,620 --> 01:09:34,920 monsters that crawl out of portals and 1599 01:09:40,940 --> 01:09:39,630 um so there is that that kind of I want 1600 01:09:42,380 --> 01:09:40,950 to say it's a belief system because 1601 01:09:45,620 --> 01:09:42,390 maybe that's not fair but you do have 1602 01:09:49,460 --> 01:09:45,630 this kind of discourse that occurs where 1603 01:09:52,220 --> 01:09:49,470 people where people sort of chase it 1604 01:09:55,670 --> 01:09:52,230 more in that in that paranormal sense so 1605 01:09:57,980 --> 01:09:55,680 UFOs aren't aliens from space in sort of 1606 01:10:00,110 --> 01:09:57,990 riveted together flying saucers they're 1607 01:10:02,060 --> 01:10:00,120 some it's something else right and they 1608 01:10:04,340 --> 01:10:02,070 just kind of appear as UFOs to us that's 1609 01:10:07,340 --> 01:10:04,350 what they've chosen to appear to us as 1610 01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:07,350 let's say or Mothman or Bigfoot or 1611 01:10:13,969 --> 01:10:10,290 ghosts or whatever yeah it's it's it's a 1612 01:10:17,660 --> 01:10:13,979 wild kind of ufology so wild ride man 1613 01:10:19,339 --> 01:10:17,670 but it is and and then you know you get 1614 01:10:21,770 --> 01:10:19,349 back to like the nuts and bolts 1615 01:10:24,290 --> 01:10:21,780 sightings that are you know mass of 1616 01:10:26,660 --> 01:10:24,300 sightings and mass witnesses and all 1617 01:10:30,770 --> 01:10:26,670 that that that really makes you have to 1618 01:10:32,779 --> 01:10:30,780 pause and wonder you know exactly what 1619 01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:32,789 we're seeing and you know now that we 1620 01:10:37,729 --> 01:10:35,249 see we know the government taking an 1621 01:10:39,290 --> 01:10:37,739 interest or at least allowing us to know 1622 01:10:43,279 --> 01:10:39,300 that they have an interest in it I think 1623 01:10:45,589 --> 01:10:43,289 it's you know perhaps and I've said this 1624 01:10:47,359 --> 01:10:45,599 many times and I still believe it I I 1625 01:10:50,839 --> 01:10:47,369 don't think they probably know too much 1626 01:10:52,009 --> 01:10:50,849 more than anyone else yeah I I agree I 1627 01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:52,019 say that my book 1628 01:10:56,839 --> 01:10:55,050 the only kind of same place to stand is 1629 01:11:01,040 --> 01:10:56,849 in the I don't know you know you need to 1630 01:11:03,649 --> 01:11:01,050 be open-minded enough to allow sort of a 1631 01:11:05,330 --> 01:11:03,659 space for these things to to exist in 1632 01:11:06,770 --> 01:11:05,340 your mind in the sense that you know 1633 01:11:08,089 --> 01:11:06,780 people are claiming to see these things 1634 01:11:10,430 --> 01:11:08,099 and there's enough evidence that 1635 01:11:13,489 --> 01:11:10,440 supports yeah people do see weird stuff 1636 01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:13,499 and it's not necessarily you know stuff 1637 01:11:17,989 --> 01:11:16,320 we make but you also kind of need to 1638 01:11:19,129 --> 01:11:17,999 remain critical enough and skeptical 1639 01:11:21,020 --> 01:11:19,139 enough that you know your whole brain 1640 01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:21,030 doesn't fall out and you believe every 1641 01:11:25,399 --> 01:11:23,610 single thing anyone tells you because 1642 01:11:27,469 --> 01:11:25,409 then you go down that weird rabbit hole 1643 01:11:29,089 --> 01:11:27,479 of theirs reptilians in Antarctica and 1644 01:11:32,239 --> 01:11:29,099 you know there's there's there's you 1645 01:11:34,399 --> 01:11:32,249 know blue avians walking around and 1646 01:11:35,719 --> 01:11:34,409 mating with humans and making babies 1647 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:35,729 they're you know you kind of tend to go 1648 01:11:40,910 --> 01:11:38,010 down that road so you have to kind of 1649 01:11:43,250 --> 01:11:40,920 remain in this middle ground so the I 1650 01:11:45,529 --> 01:11:43,260 don't know is kind of that good position 1651 01:11:49,879 --> 01:11:45,539 to be and I think yeah yeah you know 1652 01:11:53,870 --> 01:11:49,889 what we lost you know Stan Freeman 1653 01:11:57,529 --> 01:11:53,880 recently and a big loss to the UFO field 1654 01:12:00,649 --> 01:11:57,539 but I remember his saying was some UFOs 1655 01:12:02,810 --> 01:12:00,659 are alien spacecraft I mean he really 1656 01:12:05,540 --> 01:12:02,820 really thought that was that was it and 1657 01:12:09,350 --> 01:12:05,550 I remember one time I had a conversation 1658 01:12:13,219 --> 01:12:09,360 with them about it was a nice 1659 01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:13,229 conversation about Leslie cane and and 1660 01:12:17,449 --> 01:12:15,449 he said you know sooner or later she'll 1661 01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:17,459 get it and she'll actually say you know 1662 01:12:23,779 --> 01:12:21,449 some aliens are involved and you know I 1663 01:12:26,030 --> 01:12:23,789 disagree Adam you know I don't think 1664 01:12:28,460 --> 01:12:26,040 that'll ever yeah it won't happen 1665 01:12:29,810 --> 01:12:28,470 he was he was one of the last I think 1666 01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:29,820 kind of nuts-and-bolts 1667 01:12:36,500 --> 01:12:34,050 you know et guys who did the conference 1668 01:12:39,590 --> 01:12:36,510 circuit and was a full time UFO 1669 01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:39,600 researcher you know I'm not sure how 1670 01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:41,970 many of those those guys are left right 1671 01:12:48,170 --> 01:12:44,130 like he was sort of of that era right he 1672 01:12:52,850 --> 01:12:48,180 was like a classic vintage you know UFO 1673 01:12:54,050 --> 01:12:52,860 researcher and and you know one faulted 1674 01:12:56,170 --> 01:12:54,060 them for that because I mean ultimately 1675 01:12:58,400 --> 01:12:56,180 he had some great compelling points 1676 01:13:00,710 --> 01:12:58,410 sorry my cat is like pushing on this 1677 01:13:05,780 --> 01:13:00,720 table and he's massive so yeah when he 1678 01:13:09,950 --> 01:13:05,790 moves the whole damn thing moves yeah so 1679 01:13:13,100 --> 01:13:09,960 he because he was one of those sort of 1680 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:13,110 classic UFO guys he gave us a lot I 1681 01:13:18,290 --> 01:13:14,730 think a foundation that we need to 1682 01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:18,300 respect and a lot of his work is sort of 1683 01:13:22,580 --> 01:13:20,850 really where a lot of my work hinges 1684 01:13:24,710 --> 01:13:22,590 from right you needed we needed to kind 1685 01:13:27,860 --> 01:13:24,720 of go through his stuff and you needed 1686 01:13:29,540 --> 01:13:27,870 to read his work to have a good 1687 01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:29,550 understanding of just the phenomenon in 1688 01:13:36,050 --> 01:13:32,970 general now we can agree or disagree if 1689 01:13:37,310 --> 01:13:36,060 it's aliens or whatever but yeah he was 1690 01:13:39,230 --> 01:13:37,320 one of those guys who was like yeah 1691 01:13:40,700 --> 01:13:39,240 aliens for another planet in space ships 1692 01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:40,710 that they riveted together with bolts 1693 01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:43,410 and flew here with with weird technology 1694 01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:46,410 that was that was his gem and and it's 1695 01:13:52,940 --> 01:13:48,210 it's it's it's a shame that he he passed 1696 01:13:54,770 --> 01:13:52,950 away yeah I yeah legend a legend gone 1697 01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:54,780 yeah you know you were talking about 1698 01:13:58,880 --> 01:13:56,370 researchers and earlier you mentioned 1699 01:14:01,400 --> 01:13:58,890 that there were you had a film I haven't 1700 01:14:04,610 --> 01:14:01,410 seen it yet that came out this week or 1701 01:14:06,590 --> 01:14:04,620 last week that are about three things 1702 01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:06,600 that an investigator needs to have can 1703 01:14:10,940 --> 01:14:08,880 you touch lightly on those or give a 1704 01:14:13,310 --> 01:14:10,950 little spoiler to your clip there yeah 1705 01:14:17,780 --> 01:14:13,320 yeah sure so I have my last YouTube 1706 01:14:19,910 --> 01:14:17,790 video is was an interesting one and it 1707 01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:19,920 didn't cause a lot of controversy but 1708 01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:23,040 people did kind of comment and and so 1709 01:14:27,290 --> 01:14:25,440 the videos about the three sort of 1710 01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:27,300 secrets of UFO investigation so anyone 1711 01:14:30,890 --> 01:14:29,610 who wants to get into doing UFO research 1712 01:14:33,710 --> 01:14:30,900 or UFO investigation there's sort of 1713 01:14:38,030 --> 01:14:33,720 three things you need to know before you 1714 01:14:39,410 --> 01:14:38,040 do it so the secret number one and and I 1715 01:14:39,770 --> 01:14:39,420 won't go into too much details I want to 1716 01:14:42,919 --> 01:14:39,780 spoil the 1717 01:14:46,089 --> 01:14:42,929 you can watch it but you know number one 1718 01:14:49,669 --> 01:14:46,099 is it's incredibly time-consuming work 1719 01:14:52,490 --> 01:14:49,679 and it's very dull and dry a lot of the 1720 01:14:54,830 --> 01:14:52,500 time you know we're gonna hate when I 1721 01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:54,840 first joined MUFON I got my MUFON ID 1722 01:14:59,029 --> 01:14:56,610 right like that my little like I'm a 1723 01:15:00,439 --> 01:14:59,039 field investigator card and I was like I 1724 01:15:02,359 --> 01:15:00,449 got in the mail and I thought this was 1725 01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:02,369 the coolest thing in the world and it 1726 01:15:08,810 --> 01:15:06,239 really isn't but being a third look at 1727 01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:08,820 this thing and my wife's like you're 1728 01:15:16,279 --> 01:15:15,169 you know I had my picture on it that was 1729 01:15:18,649 --> 01:15:16,289 you know we're gonna drive you know 1730 01:15:20,180 --> 01:15:18,659 ripping down the highway my Toyota right 1731 01:15:22,189 --> 01:15:20,190 I look like it see this flying saucer 1732 01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:22,199 crashed into a field I'm gonna run in 1733 01:15:26,810 --> 01:15:24,570 there and save the day and like flash my 1734 01:15:28,100 --> 01:15:26,820 MUFON card and be like it's okay I'm 1735 01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:28,110 here you know like that's what you think 1736 01:15:32,359 --> 01:15:29,730 you know you're gonna have to look a bit 1737 01:15:34,069 --> 01:15:32,369 like a very young J Allen Hynek really 1738 01:15:37,609 --> 01:15:34,079 oh thank you very much I'll take those 1739 01:15:39,410 --> 01:15:37,619 yeah so you know you have this 1740 01:15:42,020 --> 01:15:39,420 impression that UFO investigation is 1741 01:15:46,879 --> 01:15:42,030 exciting and really fundamentally it's 1742 01:15:49,189 --> 01:15:46,889 not it's really dry and boring um the 1743 01:15:50,990 --> 01:15:49,199 only interesting part that I really that 1744 01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:51,000 I liked was was it meeting with 1745 01:15:56,299 --> 01:15:54,570 witnesses yeah and and you know you meet 1746 01:15:57,589 --> 01:15:56,309 a lot of interesting kooky people and 1747 01:16:00,649 --> 01:15:57,599 but you meet a lot of interesting clean 1748 01:16:02,839 --> 01:16:00,659 people everywhere so that's that's not 1749 01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:02,849 weird it's when you meet the the people 1750 01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:07,170 who impress you incredibly because 1751 01:16:11,359 --> 01:16:09,530 they're they're the most down-to-earth 1752 01:16:12,979 --> 01:16:11,369 individually Verma in your life like 1753 01:16:15,140 --> 01:16:12,989 salt of the earth and and they simply 1754 01:16:17,540 --> 01:16:15,150 sit there and say like I don't know what 1755 01:16:20,180 --> 01:16:17,550 the hell I just experienced or saw and 1756 01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:20,190 I'll this is this is what I saw I don't 1757 01:16:23,629 --> 01:16:21,570 know what it was but this is what I saw 1758 01:16:26,299 --> 01:16:23,639 and then they just kind of just tell you 1759 01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:26,309 and they don't they don't talk about 1760 01:16:29,390 --> 01:16:27,690 aliens they don't talk about 1761 01:16:32,629 --> 01:16:29,400 interdimensional beings they don't like 1762 01:16:34,129 --> 01:16:32,639 they're not engaged in UFO in the UFO 1763 01:16:36,770 --> 01:16:34,139 story whatsoever they don't read about 1764 01:16:38,180 --> 01:16:36,780 it they just sort of say like something 1765 01:16:40,490 --> 01:16:38,190 has disrupted my life and I don't know 1766 01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:40,500 what to do and then you as a UFO 1767 01:16:44,959 --> 01:16:41,730 investigators say I don't know what to 1768 01:16:46,490 --> 01:16:44,969 do either but you you you take down 1769 01:16:47,629 --> 01:16:46,500 their stories and for me that's what's 1770 01:16:49,339 --> 01:16:47,639 the most interesting is meeting these 1771 01:16:52,100 --> 01:16:49,349 individuals and collecting their stories 1772 01:16:53,570 --> 01:16:52,110 and and and kind of forming this picture 1773 01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:53,580 of the culture 1774 01:16:58,100 --> 01:16:55,170 and these individuals the sort of these 1775 01:17:02,030 --> 01:16:58,110 UFO people like that that's the title of 1776 01:17:03,470 --> 01:17:02,040 your book it is somewhere it's yeah I'll 1777 01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:03,480 get it wait I'll show it to the people 1778 01:17:07,220 --> 01:17:05,970 at home well actually actually I can't 1779 01:17:10,730 --> 01:17:07,230 really flash it on YouTube 1780 01:17:13,490 --> 01:17:10,740 Oh unfortunately they they for trademark 1781 01:17:15,710 --> 01:17:13,500 purposes I've had but anyway let's just 1782 01:17:17,450 --> 01:17:15,720 move on but yeah we can't really have 1783 01:17:19,970 --> 01:17:17,460 the book up there all right well then I 1784 01:17:21,470 --> 01:17:19,980 won't show it yeah but yeah it is the 1785 01:17:24,350 --> 01:17:21,480 name of my book UFO people are curious 1786 01:17:25,670 --> 01:17:24,360 culture well we'll get to that in a 1787 01:17:28,070 --> 01:17:25,680 second because I'll quickly go through 1788 01:17:32,540 --> 01:17:28,080 two and three of that video okay if you 1789 01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:32,550 don't mind yeah secret to was it's there 1790 01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:34,170 you play a lot of politics and nepotism 1791 01:17:38,030 --> 01:17:36,810 is a huge aspect of the UFO 1792 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:38,040 investigation you have folk research 1793 01:17:41,990 --> 01:17:39,570 it's it's not what you know it's who you 1794 01:17:44,330 --> 01:17:42,000 know half the time and then secret 1795 01:17:46,370 --> 01:17:44,340 number three is that you walk out of it 1796 01:17:48,350 --> 01:17:46,380 not knowing a damn thing like you don't 1797 01:17:50,180 --> 01:17:48,360 learn anything that you didn't know 1798 01:17:52,190 --> 01:17:50,190 before you meet a lot of mission people 1799 01:17:54,830 --> 01:17:52,200 you do a lot of research but you 1800 01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:54,840 fundamentally kind of go well I still 1801 01:17:57,290 --> 01:17:56,130 don't know what UFOs are and you have to 1802 01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:57,300 throw your hands up and just kind of be 1803 01:18:01,550 --> 01:17:58,800 fine with that 1804 01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:01,560 because anyone who sits there and says I 1805 01:18:05,870 --> 01:18:03,930 know what UFOs are like I know what the 1806 01:18:06,410 --> 01:18:05,880 source of the UFO phenomenon is here's 1807 01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:06,420 what it is 1808 01:18:09,650 --> 01:18:08,490 they're delusional they're lying or 1809 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:09,660 they're trying to sell you something 1810 01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:13,010 right and and that's really the 1811 01:18:18,050 --> 01:18:15,810 god-honest truth so those are the three 1812 01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:18,060 secrets of UFO vestigation yeah yeah 1813 01:18:22,790 --> 01:18:21,330 well well I like it and I can I totally 1814 01:18:25,580 --> 01:18:22,800 get the fact that you know anytime I 1815 01:18:28,820 --> 01:18:25,590 talk to someone that with witnessed the 1816 01:18:32,570 --> 01:18:28,830 UFO event I think it's fascinating you 1817 01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:32,580 know when you're face to face and they 1818 01:18:37,490 --> 01:18:35,250 tell you and I really like I've had this 1819 01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:37,500 happen probably 20 times I've done the 1820 01:18:41,810 --> 01:18:39,450 show where I talk to someone that I 1821 01:18:43,820 --> 01:18:41,820 consider outside of the circuit outside 1822 01:18:46,460 --> 01:18:43,830 of the field outside of the interest 1823 01:18:49,100 --> 01:18:46,470 that had absolutely amazing sightings 1824 01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:49,110 and it comes up in conversation oh well 1825 01:18:54,290 --> 01:18:51,600 I had a sighting and well tell me about 1826 01:18:57,710 --> 01:18:54,300 it and then you hear yes like crazy 1827 01:18:59,300 --> 01:18:57,720 stuff that is just amazing and I love 1828 01:19:01,910 --> 01:18:59,310 that stuff I love when that happens 1829 01:19:05,690 --> 01:19:01,920 yeah I refer to this group as the the 1830 01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:05,700 silent majority my I've told the story a 1831 01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:07,410 million times but my my wife 1832 01:19:10,910 --> 01:19:09,090 well you know we'll go to like a party 1833 01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:10,920 like a house party or you know a work 1834 01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:13,920 party and she'll let people know in this 1835 01:19:18,290 --> 01:19:15,600 in various social circles that I wrote a 1836 01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:18,300 book about UFOs and and you know 30 1837 01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:19,410 people at the party they all kind of 1838 01:19:22,370 --> 01:19:20,850 look at you funny like oh okay that's 1839 01:19:23,780 --> 01:19:22,380 interesting and because I guess that's 1840 01:19:25,730 --> 01:19:23,790 kind of strange and they start talking 1841 01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:25,740 about it with you but you know it kind 1842 01:19:29,060 --> 01:19:27,330 of stops there like they don't really 1843 01:19:31,310 --> 01:19:29,070 want to talk to you in public but then 1844 01:19:32,450 --> 01:19:31,320 all of a sudden as the party goes on you 1845 01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:32,460 know you're off getting a beer from the 1846 01:19:35,690 --> 01:19:34,410 fridge and you know you find yourself in 1847 01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:35,700 a room alone with someone who's like hey 1848 01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:38,010 you know you're the UFO guy yeah so my 1849 01:19:41,900 --> 01:19:39,690 mom's saucer my dad saw this or my 1850 01:19:44,270 --> 01:19:41,910 brother I saw this and suddenly you're 1851 01:19:46,340 --> 01:19:44,280 in a party of 30 people and 27 or 28 of 1852 01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:46,350 them have come to you one on one to tell 1853 01:19:50,180 --> 01:19:48,420 you their story that they know someone 1854 01:19:52,130 --> 01:19:50,190 who had a weird experience where they 1855 01:19:56,300 --> 01:19:52,140 themselves had one they saw something 1856 01:19:58,610 --> 01:19:56,310 strange and and they're everywhere like 1857 01:20:00,590 --> 01:19:58,620 I think when you really there's a lot of 1858 01:20:02,780 --> 01:20:00,600 people who have experienced weird stuff 1859 01:20:04,940 --> 01:20:02,790 um they just don't talk about it because 1860 01:20:05,930 --> 01:20:04,950 they don't know who to talk to and they 1861 01:20:08,090 --> 01:20:05,940 feel weird about it 1862 01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:08,100 and they're not engaged in the UFO 1863 01:20:12,650 --> 01:20:10,320 community they're just not part of it so 1864 01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:12,660 to them it's this weird little part of 1865 01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:14,730 their life that they just don't want to 1866 01:20:18,290 --> 01:20:16,560 talk about until someone shows up and 1867 01:20:19,340 --> 01:20:18,300 says yeah I know it's okay you can talk 1868 01:20:21,170 --> 01:20:19,350 to me about it because I wrote a book 1869 01:20:23,660 --> 01:20:21,180 about it or whatever suddenly they just 1870 01:20:25,220 --> 01:20:23,670 unload on you and they tell you the 1871 01:20:27,020 --> 01:20:25,230 strangest stuff you've ever heard in 1872 01:20:29,180 --> 01:20:27,030 your life and these are people who you 1873 01:20:31,610 --> 01:20:29,190 know don't watch anything ufo-related 1874 01:20:33,890 --> 01:20:31,620 they don't even like science fiction and 1875 01:20:35,420 --> 01:20:33,900 you know they've had weird encounters so 1876 01:20:37,700 --> 01:20:35,430 there's definitely silent majority out 1877 01:20:40,130 --> 01:20:37,710 there of people yeah yeah yeah I've been 1878 01:20:41,930 --> 01:20:40,140 I've actually been it at you know a 1879 01:20:44,150 --> 01:20:41,940 conference were it was a show of hands 1880 01:20:47,060 --> 01:20:44,160 how many people thought they saw UFO and 1881 01:20:48,500 --> 01:20:47,070 then basically how many people reported 1882 01:20:51,260 --> 01:20:48,510 it and it was a very it was almost 1883 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:51,270 everyone first of all had the UFO and 1884 01:20:55,220 --> 01:20:53,130 you could also argue that you know 1885 01:20:57,410 --> 01:20:55,230 people that have had a UFO sighting may 1886 01:20:59,810 --> 01:20:57,420 go to a UFO conference you know that's 1887 01:21:01,940 --> 01:20:59,820 probably related but also just the fact 1888 01:21:04,580 --> 01:21:01,950 that so few people report it in the lot 1889 01:21:05,900 --> 01:21:04,590 you know what I just thought of I told 1890 01:21:07,790 --> 01:21:05,910 you not to show your book but go ahead 1891 01:21:11,150 --> 01:21:07,800 and show it and you know the reason why 1892 01:21:12,710 --> 01:21:11,160 is on this video behind you is a whole 1893 01:21:14,810 --> 01:21:12,720 bunch of books and you see the cover of 1894 01:21:16,130 --> 01:21:14,820 some of them and just you know the 1895 01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:16,140 reason I mentioned that is because I did 1896 01:21:20,990 --> 01:21:19,290 get bumped off YouTube for a short while 1897 01:21:24,229 --> 01:21:21,000 because of 1898 01:21:26,540 --> 01:21:24,239 I was having book covers as part of the 1899 01:21:28,130 --> 01:21:26,550 thumbnail and that's why they bumped me 1900 01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:28,140 off but go ahead grab your book behind 1901 01:21:32,060 --> 01:21:30,210 you and show it yeah I don't think that 1902 01:21:34,310 --> 01:21:32,070 I'm a problem with this one I'm also not 1903 01:21:36,140 --> 01:21:34,320 gonna sue you because it's my book so 1904 01:21:38,180 --> 01:21:36,150 don't worry okay we have that on we have 1905 01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:38,190 that on tape yeah yeah there's the book 1906 01:21:44,060 --> 01:21:40,890 people on YouTube UFO people so you can 1907 01:21:45,380 --> 01:21:44,070 find it on Amazon Barnes & Noble Book 1908 01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:45,390 Depository anywhere books are sold 1909 01:21:49,940 --> 01:21:47,370 basically you can find it so you just 1910 01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:49,950 google the UFO people and there you go 1911 01:21:55,100 --> 01:21:52,290 is that Jay Allen on the cover it sure 1912 01:21:57,260 --> 01:21:55,110 is yeah I was you at first Wow 1913 01:21:59,209 --> 01:21:57,270 yeah this is the famous Piedmont 1914 01:22:02,330 --> 01:21:59,219 Missouri photograph which is taken by 1915 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:02,340 Ted Phillips in 1973 and actually this 1916 01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:03,930 were the where I got the idea for the 1917 01:22:07,070 --> 01:22:05,610 book title so if you can't sort of seal 1918 01:22:10,130 --> 01:22:07,080 kind of bring it closer it says welcome 1919 01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:10,140 UFO people when Hynek went down to 1920 01:22:16,850 --> 01:22:12,960 Piedmont to investigate a UFO flap the 1921 01:22:21,140 --> 01:22:16,860 motel put up that on the billboard there 1922 01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:21,150 welcomed UFO people on their sign so so 1923 01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:24,330 Ted Phillips who was with him and Ted 1924 01:22:28,670 --> 01:22:26,730 Koppel's quite young then snap the photo 1925 01:22:32,150 --> 01:22:28,680 of jail and Hynek standing in front of 1926 01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:32,160 the sign and I was lucky enough to chat 1927 01:22:36,410 --> 01:22:34,290 with Ted's wife and unfortunately Ted is 1928 01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:36,420 quite ill so he wasn't able to talk to 1929 01:22:42,260 --> 01:22:39,930 me but his wife said that he thought the 1930 01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:42,270 the book was a great idea and and and 1931 01:22:46,310 --> 01:22:44,610 his picture should obviously sort of he 1932 01:22:48,380 --> 01:22:46,320 thought it should grace the cover of the 1933 01:22:50,270 --> 01:22:48,390 book so he gave me permission so there's 1934 01:22:51,890 --> 01:22:50,280 a big thank you answer to them it's 1935 01:22:54,290 --> 01:22:51,900 wonderful I'm going to use that picture 1936 01:22:55,820 --> 01:22:54,300 but it's a classic but it really 1937 01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:55,830 encapsulates I think what the books 1938 01:22:59,660 --> 01:22:56,130 about 1939 01:23:02,150 --> 01:22:59,670 which is people who chase this 1940 01:23:05,330 --> 01:23:02,160 phenomenon you know if you're interested 1941 01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:05,340 in UFOs and you you research them you 1942 01:23:10,370 --> 01:23:08,489 you you hunt them or you investigate 1943 01:23:13,340 --> 01:23:10,380 them or you've encountered them the book 1944 01:23:17,060 --> 01:23:13,350 is really about that community of people 1945 01:23:19,490 --> 01:23:17,070 those individuals who are compelled for 1946 01:23:21,550 --> 01:23:19,500 some reason to chase things that you 1947 01:23:26,030 --> 01:23:21,560 know should not exist according to 1948 01:23:28,100 --> 01:23:26,040 mainstream culture so yeah it's it's an 1949 01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:28,110 interesting read a lot of people have 1950 01:23:34,460 --> 01:23:30,050 have given me a lot of positive feedback 1951 01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:34,470 about it so you know it's it's been 1952 01:23:39,980 --> 01:23:36,960 been a relative success effort for a 1953 01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:39,990 book so I'm very very happy about it 1954 01:23:44,110 --> 01:23:41,760 can you give some more detail on some of 1955 01:23:48,230 --> 01:23:44,120 some of the things you explore in that 1956 01:23:50,300 --> 01:23:48,240 sure and there's the book kind of covers 1957 01:23:51,170 --> 01:23:50,310 various segments of sort of the UFO 1958 01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:51,180 population 1959 01:23:56,180 --> 01:23:53,970 I suppose I deal with a handful of 1960 01:24:00,500 --> 01:23:56,190 experiencers and their UFO sightings and 1961 01:24:04,490 --> 01:24:00,510 and their encounters I suppose which 1962 01:24:07,550 --> 01:24:04,500 which is interesting for experiences but 1963 01:24:09,350 --> 01:24:07,560 I think the most interesting part of the 1964 01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:09,360 book was when I was able to meet with 1965 01:24:15,190 --> 01:24:12,930 some of the more controversial and and 1966 01:24:18,470 --> 01:24:15,200 interesting people in the UFO community 1967 01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:18,480 Richard Doty gave me his time right 1968 01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:21,810 well yeah and we spoke at length he told 1969 01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:23,730 me his side of the story and and we sort 1970 01:24:28,190 --> 01:24:25,650 of for the new listener that has no idea 1971 01:24:30,290 --> 01:24:28,200 who Richard Doty is yeah and Paul 1972 01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:30,300 bennewitz and all that go away yeah yeah 1973 01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:35,250 very briefly the 1980s there was an 1974 01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:37,170 interesting encounter a man named Paul 1975 01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:38,730 bennewitz who lived near Kirtland Air 1976 01:24:42,650 --> 01:24:40,410 Force Base was picking up some odd 1977 01:24:46,550 --> 01:24:42,660 signals on some sort of radio system he 1978 01:24:48,110 --> 01:24:46,560 had set up and he was investigated by 1979 01:24:50,390 --> 01:24:48,120 the Air Force Office of Special 1980 01:24:52,490 --> 01:24:50,400 Investigations and Richard Doty was the 1981 01:24:54,770 --> 01:24:52,500 agent or one of the agents rather who 1982 01:24:57,250 --> 01:24:54,780 was sent to investigate bennewitz and 1983 01:25:01,250 --> 01:24:57,260 Andrew they realized he was listening to 1984 01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:01,260 basically an early sort of satellite I 1985 01:25:05,090 --> 01:25:03,330 guess was like a satellite communication 1986 01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:05,100 system that used lasers to communicate 1987 01:25:10,460 --> 01:25:07,260 with satellites early satellites anyway 1988 01:25:12,610 --> 01:25:10,470 and they they realized that that Paul 1989 01:25:15,020 --> 01:25:12,620 bennewitz was already kind of a little 1990 01:25:16,610 --> 01:25:15,030 connected with the UFO thing he they 1991 01:25:20,260 --> 01:25:16,620 told him those aliens and he believed it 1992 01:25:22,940 --> 01:25:20,270 and he and Dodi started sort of this 1993 01:25:24,290 --> 01:25:22,950 relationship like it and and Dodi will 1994 01:25:25,970 --> 01:25:24,300 say they were friends and and I don't 1995 01:25:28,670 --> 01:25:25,980 necessarily just I don't disbelieve him 1996 01:25:31,220 --> 01:25:28,680 I think they were but he kind of kept 1997 01:25:33,410 --> 01:25:31,230 kind of feeding him this story that 1998 01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:33,420 aliens were were around and Kirtland Air 1999 01:25:36,260 --> 01:25:35,010 Force Base was involved and there was an 2000 01:25:40,150 --> 01:25:36,270 underground base I think in somewhere in 2001 01:25:44,420 --> 01:25:40,160 New Mexico Dulce New Mexico and yeah and 2002 01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:44,430 Paul bennewitz sort of at one point had 2003 01:25:48,050 --> 01:25:46,770 a nervous breakdown because of all this 2004 01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:48,060 and 2005 01:25:55,790 --> 01:25:53,520 admission by another German named 2006 01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:55,800 William Moore who was another UFO 2007 01:25:59,480 --> 01:25:56,970 researcher who sort of working with 2008 01:26:00,830 --> 01:25:59,490 Dodie and anyway it's a big historical 2009 01:26:03,260 --> 01:26:00,840 shhhhh Mazel that I thought I can't let 2010 01:26:06,380 --> 01:26:03,270 get into but Richard Doty kind of was 2011 01:26:08,750 --> 01:26:06,390 painted as the villain of ufology when 2012 01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:08,760 when I when I first said I was gonna 2013 01:26:12,740 --> 01:26:11,520 interview him a friend of mine was 2014 01:26:14,180 --> 01:26:12,750 another UFO researcher said you know 2015 01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:14,190 he's the most hated men and a Hall of 2016 01:26:19,250 --> 01:26:16,290 ufology so he was an interesting person 2017 01:26:22,460 --> 01:26:19,260 to talk to because um he's very much a 2018 01:26:26,090 --> 01:26:22,470 human being and you know people either 2019 01:26:30,530 --> 01:26:26,100 hate him or they don't and there's not 2020 01:26:31,670 --> 01:26:30,540 many people in the middle and it's tough 2021 01:26:33,590 --> 01:26:31,680 because you know a lot of our 2022 01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:33,600 conversations didn't focus upon UFOs at 2023 01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:36,000 all but focused upon like art like he 2024 01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:38,310 has grandkids who are close to the same 2025 01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:41,010 age of my kids so we talked a lot about 2026 01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:44,250 sort of having toddlers in your life we 2027 01:26:48,590 --> 01:26:46,530 talked a lot about food and beer and 2028 01:26:51,380 --> 01:26:48,600 just you know very human conversations 2029 01:26:52,580 --> 01:26:51,390 and then so that was really nice cuz 2030 01:26:53,930 --> 01:26:52,590 he's just a guy like he's just a guy who 2031 01:26:55,310 --> 01:26:53,940 wants to talk about those things you 2032 01:26:59,240 --> 01:26:55,320 know he loves his grandkids and he loves 2033 01:27:01,520 --> 01:26:59,250 beer and he loves a good German food so 2034 01:27:03,230 --> 01:27:01,530 we we had sort of these very human 2035 01:27:04,910 --> 01:27:03,240 conversations and then UFOs would come 2036 01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:04,920 up and then suddenly you know the tone 2037 01:27:09,530 --> 01:27:06,810 would shift and we would it would be a 2038 01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:09,540 very different conversation you know all 2039 01:27:15,500 --> 01:27:13,650 of that the the nice warm kind of human 2040 01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:15,510 Richard Doty would sort of go away and 2041 01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:17,850 and now we you can tell that we're kind 2042 01:27:22,580 --> 01:27:21,090 of now in this weird realm of UFOs and 2043 01:27:24,620 --> 01:27:22,590 and he's very protective because 2044 01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:24,630 obviously you know of what he's been 2045 01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:27,930 painted to be and partially through his 2046 01:27:33,470 --> 01:27:29,970 fault and maybe not his fault as well 2047 01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:33,480 I'm kind of a mix of both yeah Rick Doty 2048 01:27:37,190 --> 01:27:35,370 was an interesting guy to talk to about 2049 01:27:38,930 --> 01:27:37,200 UFOs and there's some interesting kind 2050 01:27:41,300 --> 01:27:38,940 of I was a new information but weird 2051 01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:41,310 information in the book about him that I 2052 01:27:46,370 --> 01:27:42,690 don't think anyone's kind of ever seen 2053 01:27:47,510 --> 01:27:46,380 or read before so so hopefully kind of 2054 01:27:48,410 --> 01:27:47,520 people pick it up if they're interested 2055 01:27:51,440 --> 01:27:48,420 in that story 2056 01:27:53,510 --> 01:27:51,450 I got interviewed Christopher green dr. 2057 01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:53,520 Foley really from that I just wanted to 2058 01:27:57,860 --> 01:27:55,770 mention something I have thought about 2059 01:28:01,670 --> 01:27:57,870 having Richard on the show I didn't know 2060 01:28:04,220 --> 01:28:01,680 if would make people angry or not but um 2061 01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:04,230 you know I know Alejandro has said 2062 01:28:08,480 --> 01:28:06,960 mm-hmm Alejandro who helps out with UFO 2063 01:28:11,540 --> 01:28:08,490 updates has had a little bit of a beef 2064 01:28:14,630 --> 01:28:11,550 about Richard Doty so that's one of the 2065 01:28:17,270 --> 01:28:14,640 things but I saw him on a Steven Greer 2066 01:28:20,410 --> 01:28:17,280 the latest Steven Greer the great 2067 01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:20,420 documentary and he has off the rails I 2068 01:28:25,430 --> 01:28:22,650 was really shocked he was talking about 2069 01:28:27,410 --> 01:28:25,440 alien beings and things yeah yeah 2070 01:28:30,620 --> 01:28:27,420 and I didn't understand what that was 2071 01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:30,630 about if he did that for for what reason 2072 01:28:34,310 --> 01:28:32,370 would he do something like that that 2073 01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:34,320 that did is that something that came up 2074 01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:37,440 in your conversation it did yeah it did 2075 01:28:42,500 --> 01:28:39,690 and and I didn't include a lot of that 2076 01:28:44,450 --> 01:28:42,510 in the book III did to a point like I 2077 01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:44,460 talked about it in the sense that this 2078 01:28:51,020 --> 01:28:47,040 is what he said to me but it didn't go 2079 01:28:53,270 --> 01:28:51,030 in depth too much because again you're 2080 01:28:54,590 --> 01:28:53,280 not always sure when it comes to UFOs 2081 01:28:56,770 --> 01:28:54,600 you're not always sure where you stand 2082 01:28:59,150 --> 01:28:56,780 with with Rick Doty 2083 01:29:01,970 --> 01:28:59,160 when he talks about like I said the 2084 01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:01,980 human stuff you know it's easy you know 2085 01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:03,450 you get that right 2086 01:29:07,220 --> 01:29:04,890 clearly this guy would die for his 2087 01:29:08,450 --> 01:29:07,230 grandchildren and wouldn't think of 2088 01:29:11,210 --> 01:29:08,460 twice like and he loves them with all of 2089 01:29:13,310 --> 01:29:11,220 his heart so he's very human person but 2090 01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:13,320 then you don't know when he talks about 2091 01:29:18,380 --> 01:29:15,330 UFOs where the lies and where the truth 2092 01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:18,390 really exists so he talks a lot about 2093 01:29:23,630 --> 01:29:20,970 aliens and and extraterrestrial beings 2094 01:29:26,300 --> 01:29:23,640 and and all that very kind of Linda 2095 01:29:28,460 --> 01:29:26,310 Moulton Howe kind of EB YZ from like 2096 01:29:29,990 --> 01:29:28,470 Zeta Reticuli and the whole project like 2097 01:29:35,390 --> 01:29:30,000 serpo thing like there's like he kind of 2098 01:29:37,490 --> 01:29:35,400 goes into all that and and you're just 2099 01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:37,500 not sure if he's just that's his story 2100 01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:39,930 now because that's just the game he's 2101 01:29:44,450 --> 01:29:42,210 playing or if he honestly believes that 2102 01:29:45,950 --> 01:29:44,460 and you just can't tell but like you're 2103 01:29:47,900 --> 01:29:45,960 right it does sound totally off the 2104 01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:47,910 rails like he's talking about you know 2105 01:29:52,610 --> 01:29:50,730 dead aliens and and in in bunkers and 2106 01:29:55,820 --> 01:29:52,620 and how you know we had agreements and 2107 01:29:58,250 --> 01:29:55,830 one went back and like like that like 2108 01:30:00,800 --> 01:29:58,260 the nineteen eighties kind of trophy UFO 2109 01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:00,810 stuff that came out in late 80s early 2110 01:30:07,130 --> 01:30:05,370 90s and you're like really like this you 2111 01:30:09,230 --> 01:30:07,140 honestly sit here and believe that stuff 2112 01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:09,240 and and you know he he says that he saw 2113 01:30:13,370 --> 01:30:10,650 some of this stuff and you're just like 2114 01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:13,380 okay well let's change the subject 2115 01:30:16,399 --> 01:30:15,570 because we're not gonna go 2116 01:30:17,780 --> 01:30:16,409 with that right because there's no way 2117 01:30:21,050 --> 01:30:17,790 he can prove any of it there's no 2118 01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:21,060 evidence that he provide so you kind of 2119 01:30:26,089 --> 01:30:23,250 get lost in that world with him 2120 01:30:28,669 --> 01:30:26,099 sometimes I think you know the reason 2121 01:30:32,180 --> 01:30:28,679 there's a lot of people don't like him 2122 01:30:33,830 --> 01:30:32,190 is actually pretty valid myself you know 2123 01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:33,840 I mean you think of I think of Paul 2124 01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:36,090 bennewitz and it was such a sad case and 2125 01:30:40,339 --> 01:30:38,489 I feel as though that he was 2126 01:30:43,550 --> 01:30:40,349 instrumental and pushing him over the 2127 01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:43,560 edge you know he yeah I think I think 2128 01:30:49,399 --> 01:30:46,290 Paul bennewitz was a little sort of you 2129 01:30:51,050 --> 01:30:49,409 know he was kind of in that already but 2130 01:30:54,439 --> 01:30:51,060 I do agree I think I think definitely 2131 01:31:00,800 --> 01:30:54,449 Rick Doty did have a hand in in that 2132 01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:00,810 shove but you know we have a soft and 2133 01:31:05,919 --> 01:31:02,010 it's so tough because I talk about this 2134 01:31:09,020 --> 01:31:05,929 in the book Paul bennewitz died in 2003 2135 01:31:13,129 --> 01:31:09,030 and he he had a mental breakdown I think 2136 01:31:15,050 --> 01:31:13,139 in 1989 or 88 or 89 but that mental 2137 01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:15,060 breakdown isn't what killed him what 2138 01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:16,650 killed him was the fact that he smoked 2139 01:31:20,990 --> 01:31:18,090 like three packs of cigarettes a day and 2140 01:31:23,330 --> 01:31:21,000 he drank two liters or two liters sorry 2141 01:31:24,979 --> 01:31:23,340 you have leaders like he drank like what 2142 01:31:29,569 --> 01:31:24,989 a big part what he calls big bottles in 2143 01:31:31,459 --> 01:31:29,579 the United States we know the the head 2144 01:31:34,430 --> 01:31:31,469 gallons oh yeah there you go he drank 2145 01:31:37,220 --> 01:31:34,440 like a half gallon of Pepsi a day and I 2146 01:31:38,930 --> 01:31:37,230 mean bath would killed him you know it 2147 01:31:41,689 --> 01:31:38,940 wasn't the whole alien because after 89 2148 01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:41,699 he didn't touch aliens again really and 2149 01:31:46,010 --> 01:31:43,050 that was not really part of his life his 2150 01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:46,020 family pulled him out of that world and 2151 01:31:53,030 --> 01:31:49,920 and he kind of died from from other 2152 01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:53,040 causes I never knew you know it sounded 2153 01:31:56,780 --> 01:31:54,570 to me like he had some type of 2154 01:31:58,419 --> 01:31:56,790 mysterious death or no one really knew 2155 01:32:01,010 --> 01:31:58,429 exactly what happens some people 2156 01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:01,020 speculated that he committed suicide and 2157 01:32:06,890 --> 01:32:03,570 you know one has it really come up with 2158 01:32:09,530 --> 01:32:06,900 how Paul passed away but you think that 2159 01:32:12,229 --> 01:32:09,540 he died of causes due to health issues 2160 01:32:14,270 --> 01:32:12,239 from smoking basically yeah yeah I think 2161 01:32:15,770 --> 01:32:14,280 I think that's that's it's actually I 2162 01:32:17,839 --> 01:32:15,780 think it's I thought was relatively well 2163 01:32:20,180 --> 01:32:17,849 known I thought sort of gear Greg Bishop 2164 01:32:21,370 --> 01:32:20,190 wrote about that in project beta know 2165 01:32:23,629 --> 01:32:21,380 yeah I was out his book project 2166 01:32:25,339 --> 01:32:23,639 Greg bishops another author probably it 2167 01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:25,349 was called project beta yeah thank you 2168 01:32:29,359 --> 01:32:29,010 right yeah yeah Paul bennewitz was not a 2169 01:32:32,569 --> 01:32:29,369 healthy 2170 01:32:37,100 --> 01:32:32,579 person by any means Chris Lambright did 2171 01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:37,110 a lot of work right as well so you know 2172 01:32:41,239 --> 01:32:38,610 we need to kind of be cautious I I don't 2173 01:32:43,399 --> 01:32:41,249 necessarily I'm not necessarily sure and 2174 01:32:45,859 --> 01:32:43,409 again a lot of people blame Rick Doty 2175 01:32:48,139 --> 01:32:45,869 for for bennewitz is undoing and I think 2176 01:32:51,589 --> 01:32:48,149 like I said I think Rick Doty did play 2177 01:32:54,949 --> 01:32:51,599 did play a hand in in Paul having his 2178 01:32:57,379 --> 01:32:54,959 mental breakdown but I don't think you 2179 01:32:59,209 --> 01:32:57,389 know the man's life is on Rick Doty 2180 01:33:02,509 --> 01:32:59,219 sound like that that Bloods not on his 2181 01:33:03,770 --> 01:33:02,519 hands so you know I want to be cautious 2182 01:33:06,529 --> 01:33:03,780 because I also want to give you know 2183 01:33:08,179 --> 01:33:06,539 really DoDEA a fair shake I have I want 2184 01:33:10,159 --> 01:33:08,189 to kind of remain as journalistic as 2185 01:33:14,029 --> 01:33:10,169 possible but that doesn't mean that I 2186 01:33:15,979 --> 01:33:14,039 absolved Rick Doty because again I don't 2187 01:33:18,589 --> 01:33:15,989 necessarily know when he was talking to 2188 01:33:22,369 --> 01:33:18,599 me what was totally truthful and what 2189 01:33:24,109 --> 01:33:22,379 wasn't and and and what's interesting is 2190 01:33:27,049 --> 01:33:24,119 is Rick Doty and I and I say this in the 2191 01:33:28,850 --> 01:33:27,059 book Rick Doty really kind of reflects 2192 01:33:31,879 --> 01:33:28,860 the UFO community a little bit right 2193 01:33:34,399 --> 01:33:31,889 this mix of truth and and fiction of 2194 01:33:36,379 --> 01:33:34,409 puzzling of honesty and fabrication 2195 01:33:38,389 --> 01:33:36,389 right because the UFO community is full 2196 01:33:40,850 --> 01:33:38,399 of people who do very similar things 2197 01:33:42,619 --> 01:33:40,860 they lie outright about their sources 2198 01:33:44,569 --> 01:33:42,629 they lie outright about their 2199 01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:44,579 information only to garner attention 2200 01:33:49,909 --> 01:33:47,610 only to garner now views and clicks and 2201 01:33:56,359 --> 01:33:49,919 and subscriptions to their YouTube 2202 01:34:00,109 --> 01:33:56,369 channels like this no I don't like but 2203 01:34:02,959 --> 01:34:00,119 they really do right and and we we kind 2204 01:34:05,540 --> 01:34:02,969 of dabble in this world of Mythology and 2205 01:34:06,770 --> 01:34:05,550 reality and Rick Doty is a perfect 2206 01:34:10,299 --> 01:34:06,780 example of this he's almost like this 2207 01:34:12,500 --> 01:34:10,309 personified version of myth and and 2208 01:34:14,060 --> 01:34:12,510 reality kind of mixed together into one 2209 01:34:15,500 --> 01:34:14,070 person and I think maybe that's why we 2210 01:34:17,149 --> 01:34:15,510 don't like him maybe it's we like we we 2211 01:34:18,679 --> 01:34:17,159 look at Rick Doty and we sort of see 2212 01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:18,689 ourselves and you know you have that 2213 01:34:22,939 --> 01:34:20,610 weird crisis that that epistemological 2214 01:34:25,069 --> 01:34:22,949 know the the existential crisis and 2215 01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:25,079 you're like oh crap you know that's me 2216 01:34:31,549 --> 01:34:29,760 and then you freak out so yeah he's an 2217 01:34:33,020 --> 01:34:31,559 interesting fellow though and and you 2218 01:34:34,790 --> 01:34:33,030 should have him on the show I think 2219 01:34:36,919 --> 01:34:34,800 you'd have an amazing I think you have 2220 01:34:40,310 --> 01:34:36,929 an amazing show well we'll talk about 2221 01:34:42,049 --> 01:34:40,320 that with this contact info after and I 2222 01:34:42,610 --> 01:34:42,059 think I would do it I think I would do 2223 01:34:44,890 --> 01:34:42,620 it 2224 01:34:46,270 --> 01:34:44,900 okay when I sort of stopped you there 2225 01:34:48,250 --> 01:34:46,280 you were starting to talk about I 2226 01:34:50,110 --> 01:34:48,260 thought you said the name Christopher or 2227 01:34:52,990 --> 01:34:50,120 something yeah you were gonna continue 2228 01:34:55,150 --> 01:34:53,000 on with yeah about your book go ahead I 2229 01:34:57,790 --> 01:34:55,160 think for the vast majority of people 2230 01:35:00,520 --> 01:34:57,800 who read my book they they often point 2231 01:35:03,220 --> 01:35:00,530 it's I think it's chapter 10 with which 2232 01:35:05,980 --> 01:35:03,230 is titled the invisible college and I 2233 01:35:08,860 --> 01:35:05,990 had the opportunity to interview dr. 2234 01:35:11,860 --> 01:35:08,870 Christopher kit green kit green dr. Hal 2235 01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:11,870 put off and doctor Gary Nolan from 2236 01:35:17,380 --> 01:35:14,930 Stanford University yeah as well yeah 2237 01:35:20,290 --> 01:35:17,390 yeah as well as a few other individuals 2238 01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:20,300 who chose to stay out of the book at 2239 01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:22,490 least publicly they wanted to kind of 2240 01:35:27,490 --> 01:35:24,770 hang on to some anonymity which I 2241 01:35:28,690 --> 01:35:27,500 respect but those three sort of put 2242 01:35:30,910 --> 01:35:28,700 their names out there and said yeah you 2243 01:35:34,570 --> 01:35:30,920 can include this and and it was really 2244 01:35:39,220 --> 01:35:34,580 interesting to talk to them because like 2245 01:35:41,170 --> 01:35:39,230 for their respected they hold you know 2246 01:35:43,330 --> 01:35:41,180 academic degrees they they are 2247 01:35:46,930 --> 01:35:43,340 successful professionals in their 2248 01:35:49,210 --> 01:35:46,940 various fields and you can't argue with 2249 01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:49,220 that you know a lot of people will will 2250 01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:50,930 look at them and and and they'll look at 2251 01:35:54,550 --> 01:35:52,610 people like kit green and and he'll put 2252 01:35:56,530 --> 01:35:54,560 off and say they're spooks and their 2253 01:35:58,600 --> 01:35:56,540 government disinformation agents and the 2254 01:36:00,250 --> 01:35:58,610 CIA and blah blah blah and they're 2255 01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:00,260 they're not sent like they'll make all 2256 01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:02,090 these ridiculous statements but then 2257 01:36:05,470 --> 01:36:03,410 when you talk to them and you meet with 2258 01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:05,480 them and and and you sort of Skype with 2259 01:36:10,660 --> 01:36:06,770 them and chat with them over the phone 2260 01:36:11,860 --> 01:36:10,670 and you know text them regularly you you 2261 01:36:14,710 --> 01:36:11,870 realize they're they're very 2262 01:36:16,260 --> 01:36:14,720 down-to-earth individuals and and all 2263 01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:16,270 the stuff people say about them is just 2264 01:36:23,800 --> 01:36:19,610 it's just people talking and it really 2265 01:36:24,730 --> 01:36:23,810 bears no no factual no no factual basis 2266 01:36:25,930 --> 01:36:24,740 because at the end of day you can't 2267 01:36:28,150 --> 01:36:25,940 argue with the fact that they're 2268 01:36:29,860 --> 01:36:28,160 successful you can't argue with the fact 2269 01:36:31,750 --> 01:36:29,870 that they're they're well-respected in 2270 01:36:33,190 --> 01:36:31,760 their various fields they they have 2271 01:36:35,050 --> 01:36:33,200 plenty of business they're doing quite 2272 01:36:37,270 --> 01:36:35,060 well financially to the point where 2273 01:36:40,300 --> 01:36:37,280 they're they have you know they run some 2274 01:36:42,190 --> 01:36:40,310 of them multi-million dollar labs that 2275 01:36:43,980 --> 01:36:42,200 have government contracts so you know 2276 01:36:46,780 --> 01:36:43,990 fundamentally you can't argue with that 2277 01:36:49,300 --> 01:36:46,790 and and they live in an interesting 2278 01:36:51,370 --> 01:36:49,310 world because they sort of sit in this 2279 01:36:54,490 --> 01:36:51,380 kind of not elevated but this kind of 2280 01:36:56,770 --> 01:36:54,500 other realm of the UFO people because 2281 01:36:58,720 --> 01:36:56,780 they have contacts 2282 01:37:01,660 --> 01:36:58,730 US intelligence or military intelligence 2283 01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:01,670 they have contacts in private industry 2284 01:37:07,180 --> 01:37:05,360 Lockheed Martin you know sent Sandia 2285 01:37:10,450 --> 01:37:07,190 Labs whatever they have kind of these 2286 01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:10,460 these contacts with these people and 2287 01:37:15,610 --> 01:37:13,850 these groups and these players who no 2288 01:37:17,200 --> 01:37:15,620 one really knows they're not they don't 2289 01:37:19,810 --> 01:37:17,210 attend conferences they don't give 2290 01:37:21,970 --> 01:37:19,820 lectures at UFO conferences but they're 2291 01:37:24,250 --> 01:37:21,980 incredibly interested in the UFO 2292 01:37:27,060 --> 01:37:24,260 phenomenon from various reasons whether 2293 01:37:30,310 --> 01:37:27,070 it's financial reasons spiritual reasons 2294 01:37:33,100 --> 01:37:30,320 just personal interest because they had 2295 01:37:35,020 --> 01:37:33,110 an experience themselves so I got to 2296 01:37:37,500 --> 01:37:35,030 meet and I got to chat with with these 2297 01:37:41,050 --> 01:37:37,510 individuals like I said these three guys 2298 01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:41,060 and some others but it was wildly 2299 01:37:45,970 --> 01:37:42,890 fascinating and the chapter is so 2300 01:37:47,350 --> 01:37:45,980 interesting to read because it paints a 2301 01:37:50,260 --> 01:37:47,360 great picture of the work they're doing 2302 01:37:52,030 --> 01:37:50,270 and how they're using their science and 2303 01:37:58,150 --> 01:37:52,040 their science backgrounds as well as 2304 01:37:59,440 --> 01:37:58,160 their contacts to to study UFOs one 2305 01:38:01,120 --> 01:37:59,450 thing though that does incredibly clear 2306 01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:01,130 is they play their hands incredibly 2307 01:38:05,290 --> 01:38:03,050 close to their chest like they don't 2308 01:38:08,440 --> 01:38:05,300 they're they're not really interested in 2309 01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:08,450 in attending UFO conferences and sharing 2310 01:38:11,860 --> 01:38:10,490 that information in the way sort of the 2311 01:38:13,900 --> 01:38:11,870 UFO community disseminates information 2312 01:38:17,110 --> 01:38:13,910 right they go for peer review and an 2313 01:38:20,230 --> 01:38:17,120 academic an academic process and a 2314 01:38:21,910 --> 01:38:20,240 scientific process but it's oh it's a 2315 01:38:23,950 --> 01:38:21,920 great chapter because it like I said it 2316 01:38:25,420 --> 01:38:23,960 kind of paints what their work is 2317 01:38:29,670 --> 01:38:25,430 focused on right now and what they're up 2318 01:38:31,900 --> 01:38:29,680 to and and their various studies and and 2319 01:38:34,060 --> 01:38:31,910 some of it blows your mind because 2320 01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:34,070 you're you're you sit there and you read 2321 01:38:39,370 --> 01:38:36,890 it and you go like how is this real 2322 01:38:42,300 --> 01:38:39,380 because mainstream culture says none of 2323 01:38:44,620 --> 01:38:42,310 this stuff exists yet you have 2324 01:38:47,740 --> 01:38:44,630 incredibly talented scientists and 2325 01:38:53,290 --> 01:38:47,750 thinkers actively engaged in studying 2326 01:38:55,480 --> 01:38:53,300 UFOs privately and quietly invisibly so 2327 01:38:57,550 --> 01:38:55,490 I give you a bit of a sneak peak in the 2328 01:38:59,610 --> 01:38:57,560 book as much as they would let me anyway 2329 01:39:02,290 --> 01:38:59,620 which i think is is is you know 2330 01:39:03,790 --> 01:39:02,300 interesting anyway yeah well you know 2331 01:39:06,610 --> 01:39:03,800 I've said many times on the show and 2332 01:39:08,649 --> 01:39:06,620 what is it going to take to have signs 2333 01:39:11,050 --> 01:39:08,659 take this seriously and 2334 01:39:14,470 --> 01:39:11,060 is really you know refreshing to hear 2335 01:39:17,169 --> 01:39:14,480 that you know some people in science do 2336 01:39:21,010 --> 01:39:17,179 take this seriously and you know beyond 2337 01:39:23,709 --> 01:39:21,020 just a mild interest and and put their 2338 01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:23,719 reputations on the line basically and I 2339 01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:27,290 think we're that only breeds more in 2340 01:39:34,270 --> 01:39:30,530 other words the more people are seen 2341 01:39:35,950 --> 01:39:34,280 doing this people in their field the 2342 01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:35,960 more people may take the chance and 2343 01:39:41,649 --> 01:39:38,690 follow suit and who knows we may get 2344 01:39:44,169 --> 01:39:41,659 some type of answer I personally don't 2345 01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:44,179 know if we'll ever know an answer I've 2346 01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:46,250 said this a couple of times on past 2347 01:39:51,399 --> 01:39:50,239 shows but I I watched a a great I can't 2348 01:39:52,510 --> 01:39:51,409 even remember what it was I think it 2349 01:39:55,660 --> 01:39:52,520 might have been on YouTube or something 2350 01:39:59,649 --> 01:39:55,670 but it was a it was a documentary about 2351 01:40:01,930 --> 01:39:59,659 UFOs in the 50s sometime in the 1950s 2352 01:40:03,490 --> 01:40:01,940 and there was an old guy and it was a 2353 01:40:07,660 --> 01:40:03,500 black-and-white and there was an old guy 2354 01:40:10,030 --> 01:40:07,670 and wearing a derby and he said I just 2355 01:40:11,950 --> 01:40:10,040 hope in my lifetime I'm gonna know what 2356 01:40:14,020 --> 01:40:11,960 these things are you know and I think 2357 01:40:15,850 --> 01:40:14,030 about wow that guy's been probably gone 2358 01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:15,860 you know 40 years or something like that 2359 01:40:23,649 --> 01:40:21,290 and you know I wonder I feel almost like 2360 01:40:26,550 --> 01:40:23,659 we're on the verge of knowing a little 2361 01:40:31,050 --> 01:40:26,560 more what are your thoughts on that oh 2362 01:40:34,899 --> 01:40:31,060 man I'm gonna depress you market pizza I 2363 01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:34,909 don't think we're gonna know you know 2364 01:40:38,919 --> 01:40:36,530 I've said it I've said it publicly so I 2365 01:40:43,090 --> 01:40:38,929 have to defend my statement but and I I 2366 01:40:45,040 --> 01:40:43,100 don't think that we're gonna know what 2367 01:40:47,740 --> 01:40:45,050 the source of the UFO phenomenon is at 2368 01:40:49,930 --> 01:40:47,750 least not in in total we might get more 2369 01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:49,940 some more clues and some more pieces I 2370 01:40:54,550 --> 01:40:52,489 think we're gonna I think I think where 2371 01:40:56,709 --> 01:40:54,560 we're at is we need to figure out what 2372 01:40:58,629 --> 01:40:56,719 the right questions are to ask I don't 2373 01:41:00,459 --> 01:40:58,639 think we're anywhere near answers yet 2374 01:41:03,100 --> 01:41:00,469 because right now we're not even asking 2375 01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:03,110 the right questions I you you you go we 2376 01:41:08,649 --> 01:41:04,610 may not know the questions to ask 2377 01:41:09,850 --> 01:41:08,659 exactly so once we start learning once 2378 01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:09,860 we start kind of piecing that together 2379 01:41:14,770 --> 01:41:11,810 what are the questions that we need to 2380 01:41:18,310 --> 01:41:14,780 ask then we might start looking in the 2381 01:41:20,500 --> 01:41:18,320 right direction but the problem is what 2382 01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:20,510 gets what gets what muddies all this is 2383 01:41:24,910 --> 01:41:22,610 is ideology we get ball 2384 01:41:27,190 --> 01:41:24,920 down in our opinions and our beliefs as 2385 01:41:31,030 --> 01:41:27,200 to what the UFO phenomenon is and it 2386 01:41:36,010 --> 01:41:33,340 for some reason we've allowed ourselves 2387 01:41:39,460 --> 01:41:36,020 and we've allowed our discourse to to 2388 01:41:43,300 --> 01:41:39,470 just buy into stuff that that's kind of 2389 01:41:45,970 --> 01:41:43,310 ridiculous there's there's no evidence 2390 01:41:49,450 --> 01:41:45,980 really apart from witness testimony to 2391 01:41:51,220 --> 01:41:49,460 support that reptilians exist or you 2392 01:41:53,530 --> 01:41:51,230 know that that there's creatures that 2393 01:41:54,820 --> 01:41:53,540 live in Antarctica or whatever because 2394 01:41:57,370 --> 01:41:54,830 there's no real evidence they're just 2395 01:41:59,230 --> 01:41:57,380 witness testimony but but people see a 2396 01:42:01,000 --> 01:41:59,240 lot of weird stuff people have seen 2397 01:42:04,090 --> 01:42:01,010 elves and fairies and leprechauns and 2398 01:42:07,270 --> 01:42:04,100 and ghosts and Bigfoot and Mothman so 2399 01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:07,280 like what the hell is it reptilians are 2400 01:42:12,970 --> 01:42:09,890 probably just part of something else 2401 01:42:16,210 --> 01:42:12,980 right so I think that these are 2402 01:42:18,430 --> 01:42:16,220 distractions I think we're being in part 2403 01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:18,440 the phenomenon is distracting us in some 2404 01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:20,090 way right it's giving us these weird 2405 01:42:23,860 --> 01:42:22,370 things that that don't necessarily make 2406 01:42:26,530 --> 01:42:23,870 sense but the problem is we kind of 2407 01:42:28,600 --> 01:42:26,540 start going down that road and it kind 2408 01:42:30,580 --> 01:42:28,610 of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy we 2409 01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:30,590 kind of you know we kind of it becomes 2410 01:42:37,030 --> 01:42:33,170 very circular and and we start to kind 2411 01:42:38,620 --> 01:42:37,040 of consume these ideas and then they 2412 01:42:39,730 --> 01:42:38,630 they kind of consume us and then all of 2413 01:42:42,010 --> 01:42:39,740 a sudden we spend a whole bunch of time 2414 01:42:43,300 --> 01:42:42,020 and a whole bunch of energy you know 2415 01:42:45,130 --> 01:42:43,310 listening to people who talk about 2416 01:42:46,900 --> 01:42:45,140 reptilians and how they're our overlords 2417 01:42:49,030 --> 01:42:46,910 and there's a Galactic Federation of all 2418 01:42:51,010 --> 01:42:49,040 these alien races who are working 2419 01:42:54,070 --> 01:42:51,020 together or they hate each other and 2420 01:42:55,420 --> 01:42:54,080 they're there for some reason situated 2421 01:42:58,270 --> 01:42:55,430 on the other side of the Moon and like 2422 01:42:59,440 --> 01:42:58,280 there's all this like stuff right and 2423 01:43:02,650 --> 01:42:59,450 you go like where is this all coming 2424 01:43:05,410 --> 01:43:02,660 from like yeah but again I think it's 2425 01:43:07,540 --> 01:43:05,420 just we get lost in our beliefs and we 2426 01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:07,550 and we sort of we just perpetuate them 2427 01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:10,250 so there's a lot of distraction we're 2428 01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:12,050 not actually asking the right questions 2429 01:43:19,420 --> 01:43:16,970 here and and we're wasting time we're 2430 01:43:21,430 --> 01:43:19,430 spinning wheels but unfortunately those 2431 01:43:23,020 --> 01:43:21,440 the people who bring a lot of attention 2432 01:43:25,570 --> 01:43:23,030 to ufology from the outside right 2433 01:43:27,100 --> 01:43:25,580 everyone kind of starts wondering if 2434 01:43:29,050 --> 01:43:27,110 those reptilians are greys because 2435 01:43:30,190 --> 01:43:29,060 that's what's on TV and then all of a 2436 01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:30,200 sudden you go down the rabbit hole and 2437 01:43:32,980 --> 01:43:31,850 you do more research and you realize it 2438 01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:32,990 might be a little more complicated than 2439 01:43:36,459 --> 01:43:33,970 that 2440 01:43:39,550 --> 01:43:36,469 but it's like you know 2441 01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:39,560 I don't know so anyway that's a long way 2442 01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:40,730 to get to your answer which I didn't 2443 01:43:43,990 --> 01:43:42,170 really answer so I'm gonna stick with my 2444 01:43:47,740 --> 01:43:44,000 I don't think we're gonna find out what 2445 01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:47,750 UFOs sort of are any time soon I think 2446 01:43:51,459 --> 01:43:49,850 we'll start getting closer to asking the 2447 01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:51,469 right questions I think we're gonna find 2448 01:43:58,209 --> 01:43:53,690 some more evidence I think we're gonna 2449 01:44:00,640 --> 01:43:58,219 we're gonna have skeptics start to 2450 01:44:03,939 --> 01:44:00,650 change their minds a little bit which 2451 01:44:05,050 --> 01:44:03,949 which we'll get that ball rolling right 2452 01:44:06,459 --> 01:44:05,060 because ultimately the skeptical 2453 01:44:07,900 --> 01:44:06,469 communities who you need to convince you 2454 01:44:09,459 --> 01:44:07,910 need to convince the people who don't 2455 01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:09,469 believe that something strange might be 2456 01:44:13,320 --> 01:44:10,730 going on because once you convince them 2457 01:44:16,959 --> 01:44:13,330 you you're you're golden 2458 01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:16,969 so so that's kind of where we're I think 2459 01:44:21,430 --> 01:44:19,130 we're headed I think the next five years 2460 01:44:24,250 --> 01:44:21,440 is gonna be a very interesting half 2461 01:44:26,050 --> 01:44:24,260 decade for you for UFO research I think 2462 01:44:30,220 --> 01:44:26,060 we're gonna kind of see our resurgence 2463 01:44:34,150 --> 01:44:30,230 in a more scientific a more critical 2464 01:44:35,200 --> 01:44:34,160 approach to UFOs yeah and I think what 2465 01:44:37,300 --> 01:44:35,210 we're gonna start to maybe see 2466 01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:37,310 dissipates slowly at least kind of 2467 01:44:43,209 --> 01:44:38,770 become less popular is that kind of more 2468 01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:43,219 sort of wild weird aspect of ufology I 2469 01:44:46,090 --> 01:44:44,690 think we're gonna kind of I think I 2470 01:44:49,060 --> 01:44:46,100 think groups like the Scientific 2471 01:44:51,459 --> 01:44:49,070 Coalition for ufology yes and to the 2472 01:44:51,780 --> 01:44:51,469 stars to a point and this whole like you 2473 01:44:53,650 --> 01:44:51,790 know 2474 01:44:55,060 --> 01:44:53,660 unidentified series and all that I think 2475 01:44:59,290 --> 01:44:55,070 it's gonna kinda start elevating the 2476 01:45:00,880 --> 01:44:59,300 discourse a little bit and and I hope 2477 01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:00,890 that that's sort of where we go in the 2478 01:45:05,229 --> 01:45:04,090 next five years yeah yeah well I'm 2479 01:45:11,380 --> 01:45:05,239 encouraged 2480 01:45:13,620 --> 01:45:11,390 like an easier topic to speak about now 2481 01:45:17,229 --> 01:45:13,630 than it was when I started this show and 2482 01:45:20,229 --> 01:45:17,239 and I'm not so you know I mean as far as 2483 01:45:21,670 --> 01:45:20,239 my real job in my real career in the 2484 01:45:24,370 --> 01:45:21,680 fine arts and all that I'm not as 2485 01:45:26,890 --> 01:45:24,380 nervous about someone finding out that I 2486 01:45:28,979 --> 01:45:26,900 do our show on UFOs because if someone 2487 01:45:32,650 --> 01:45:28,989 Google's my name you'll see two things 2488 01:45:34,780 --> 01:45:32,660 UFOs and fine art in fine art appraiser 2489 01:45:37,240 --> 01:45:34,790 and antique appraiser those are the two 2490 01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:37,250 things that come up and so if someone 2491 01:45:41,200 --> 01:45:39,650 you know a lot of people do check my 2492 01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:41,210 background as far as doing appraisals 2493 01:45:45,910 --> 01:45:43,370 they're bound to see the UFO thing I'm 2494 01:45:48,370 --> 01:45:45,920 not so worried about it as I was you 2495 01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:48,380 know when I first started this show well 2496 01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:50,250 it's also because they probably had 2497 01:45:55,040 --> 01:45:52,290 experience because most people have you 2498 01:45:58,040 --> 01:45:55,050 know I think a lot of people well yeah 2499 01:46:00,290 --> 01:45:58,050 it's not necessarily that person but 2500 01:46:02,060 --> 01:46:00,300 someone knows someone you know that's 2501 01:46:04,370 --> 01:46:02,070 what I always get you know like you said 2502 01:46:05,780 --> 01:46:04,380 at a party someone said oh my mother had 2503 01:46:08,420 --> 01:46:05,790 this and that and that's what I hear all 2504 01:46:11,630 --> 01:46:08,430 the time I come oh I never saw anything 2505 01:46:14,090 --> 01:46:11,640 but my brother did and the said it was 2506 01:46:16,220 --> 01:46:14,100 totally you know unbelievable I can't 2507 01:46:19,430 --> 01:46:16,230 believe it I think we're just about out 2508 01:46:22,220 --> 01:46:19,440 of time here we just got another about 2509 01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:22,230 another minute or so so go ahead if you 2510 01:46:27,470 --> 01:46:24,570 would and tell people where to find you 2511 01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:27,480 your your blog and your books and all 2512 01:46:32,360 --> 01:46:30,330 that sweet yeah thanks very much and so 2513 01:46:35,210 --> 01:46:32,370 the the the best way to find me is 2514 01:46:38,030 --> 01:46:35,220 Google and but I do have a website em 2515 01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:38,040 Jabin is calm and you just go there and 2516 01:46:42,110 --> 01:46:40,890 it's just basically links to place where 2517 01:46:44,900 --> 01:46:42,120 you can buy the book it links to my 2518 01:46:47,300 --> 01:46:44,910 youtube channel it links to my blog so 2519 01:46:50,090 --> 01:46:47,310 it's it's all available on MJ pan is 2520 01:46:53,750 --> 01:46:50,100 calm but my blog is tara obscura and 2521 01:46:55,820 --> 01:46:53,760 that's WWE tara obscura net and then my 2522 01:46:57,320 --> 01:46:55,830 youtube channel is just MJ binaya 2523 01:46:59,780 --> 01:46:57,330 you can just go to youtube.com forward 2524 01:47:02,000 --> 01:46:59,790 slash MJ pan ice and you'll see my 2525 01:47:04,100 --> 01:47:02,010 picture there and like I said I released 2526 01:47:06,710 --> 01:47:04,110 two videos a week there my blog posts 2527 01:47:08,540 --> 01:47:06,720 usually I do I try to do one every week 2528 01:47:10,250 --> 01:47:08,550 or two and then I also write for 2529 01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:10,260 mysterious universe so you can see my 2530 01:47:15,320 --> 01:47:13,650 articles there as well so yeah I'm kind 2531 01:47:17,180 --> 01:47:15,330 of all over I mean as Google is the best 2532 01:47:18,620 --> 01:47:17,190 just Google um Jabin eyes and you'll 2533 01:47:21,470 --> 01:47:18,630 find me I'm all over social media as 2534 01:47:23,900 --> 01:47:21,480 well so feel free to shoot me a message 2535 01:47:26,230 --> 01:47:23,910 I love getting emails from people I've 2536 01:47:28,910 --> 01:47:26,240 been doing sort of a lot of different 2537 01:47:31,160 --> 01:47:28,920 shows and stuff just because of the book 2538 01:47:33,380 --> 01:47:31,170 and I've had so many emails come in from 2539 01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:33,390 people saying you know I enjoy this I I 2540 01:47:37,970 --> 01:47:36,090 don't like this we're just fine I'll 2541 01:47:39,440 --> 01:47:37,980 take criticism but also just people 2542 01:47:41,900 --> 01:47:39,450 telling me their stories they have had 2543 01:47:44,330 --> 01:47:41,910 this experience and and I love getting 2544 01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:44,340 those emails because I love talking to 2545 01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:45,810 people about their experiences and what 2546 01:47:48,860 --> 01:47:47,010 they're interested in and what they're 2547 01:47:52,070 --> 01:47:48,870 researching I've made a lot of new 2548 01:47:54,710 --> 01:47:52,080 friends as a result so yeah please hit 2549 01:47:56,150 --> 01:47:54,720 me up and I'll be happy to talk yeah 2550 01:47:58,640 --> 01:47:56,160 you're not a guy that rests on his 2551 01:48:02,600 --> 01:47:58,650 laurels that's for sure you're busy guy 2552 01:48:04,130 --> 01:48:02,610 and yeah and with a family too anyway 2553 01:48:06,710 --> 01:48:04,140 it's been a real pleasure thanks 2554 01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:06,720 much Martha thank you very much this has 2555 01:48:09,140 --> 01:48:08,730 been great yeah great I'll talk to you 2556 01:48:11,570 --> 01:48:09,150 soon 2557 01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:11,580 thank you yeah all right everyone so 2558 01:48:17,860 --> 01:48:14,010 that is it for our show today 2559 01:48:22,730 --> 01:48:17,870 and we are going to be coming back next 2560 01:48:24,380 --> 01:48:22,740 week as always and I want to thank 2561 01:48:28,790 --> 01:48:24,390 everyone that helps out with the show 2562 01:48:30,950 --> 01:48:28,800 and anyone can help out and oh yes I 2563 01:48:34,130 --> 01:48:30,960 want to mention next week I have a great 2564 01:48:36,710 --> 01:48:34,140 show with a guy that has written on UFOs 2565 01:48:39,830 --> 01:48:36,720 he's a university professor dr. Michael 2566 01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:39,840 masters he'll be on next week so